Wolves, a good thing?

[Movemonger]

Most diseases are from livestock and domesticated wild animals.

Man introduces the disease and the wolves move in and thrive on the diseased animals.

What? Really?

[buglebrush]

 

 Wolves are a very very bad thing.  Come live among them for several years before you run your mouth and make yourself look stupid...

[jmscon]

Ok, I know this is a hot topic. I know wolves are killers. All I see is wolf bashing but not a lot of explaining why. (fade to Dana Carvey as George H. W. Bush) Bad, their bad, protecting them... wouldn't be prudent!

There are a lot of conspiracy theorists who think that the liberals don't want people hunting any more. Fact is more people are accepting the harvest of wild game as a good alternative to factory farms. Free range organic is what people want more and more of. My hunting partner and I joke that to buy the quality of meat that you can get from killing your own elk in the wild would cost $50 a pound in the stores in Seattle! Not that high a price but anyway.

People say that it will take away from their hunting opportunities, I don't want that either! But I'm the type of person who is willing to have hunting shut down in the burn areas for a couple of years so that the animals can have a chance to recover before we start hunting them again. Or shut down salmon fishing for a five year spawning cycle to let the salmon have a chance to recover, instead of pumping hatchery salmon into the streams just to say, "We have salmon there, lets fish!"

I keep hearing of diseases in deer, elk and moose. Some people say its livestock, some think it's the natural progression of things. How many would shoot a deer that is balding? Not me! Take the black death for example, bigger and bigger populations of people living in more and more concentrated areas (cities), living in squalor. Plague broke out and killed millions of people. Should we just let the diseases run their course and let the herds thin that way, maybe.

Do I think that WDFW is doing a good job? Absolutely not! They care more about run-ins with moose than have you seen a wolf! They need to listen to the ranchers, hunters and others who see them and document how many there actually are and keep the numbers in check. Respond when people have problem with wolves, not turn a blind eye.

I originally posted about natural selection because it is a theory, whether it could work...? The way things are now everything, as far as ecosystems go, has been influenced by man so much that we are constantly having to rewrite the book on how to manage the planet. One thing works and then it doesn't; One thing never works; Another stumbles along and then takes off.

So after you have all gotten done calling me names, I'm here to learn and talk about it. So if you're will to talk about it instead of yelling at me, my ears are open.

And the Bullwinkle thread was getting pretty stinking boring so I thought I might spice it up a little.   

[bearpaw]

You really need to read up a bit. Go back in the wolf topics, you will find more info than you can imagine regarding wolves. 

[Reidus]

But in the way back past, when the game declined the wolves declined because no alternate food source.  So back in the settlement days, game declined and wolves came and ate the livestock.  Then humans were to be faced with the food shortage.  So they killed the wolves.  Now we've got a whole lot more people.

A whole lot more stupid people!

[Buckhunter82]

Well isn't that ironic. The "white man" isn't hunting wolves in Washington, but the indigenous people are. You're right. They did and still do have symbiotic relationship.

[buglebrush]

You really need to read up a bit. Go back in the wolf topics, you will find more info than you can imagine regarding wolves. 

Exactly. 

[grundy53]

Ok, I know this is a hot topic. I know wolves are killers. All I see is wolf bashing but not a lot of explaining why. (fade to Dana Carvey as George H. W. Bush) Bad, their bad, protecting them... wouldn't be prudent!

There are a lot of conspiracy theorists who think that the liberals don't want people hunting any more. Fact is more people are accepting the harvest of wild game as a good alternative to factory farms. Free range organic is what people want more and more of. My hunting partner and I joke that to buy the quality of meat that you can get from killing your own elk in the wild would cost $50 a pound in the stores in Seattle! Not that high a price but anyway.

People say that it will take away from their hunting opportunities, I don't want that either! But I'm the type of person who is willing to have hunting shut down in the burn areas for a couple of years so that the animals can have a chance to recover before we start hunting them again. Or shut down salmon fishing for a five year spawning cycle to let the salmon have a chance to recover, instead of pumping hatchery salmon into the streams just to say, "We have salmon there, lets fish!"

I keep hearing of diseases in deer, elk and moose. Some people say its livestock, some think it's the natural progression of things. How many would shoot a deer that is balding? Not me! Take the black death for example, bigger and bigger populations of people living in more and more concentrated areas (cities), living in squalor. Plague broke out and killed millions of people. Should we just let the diseases run their course and let the herds thin that way, maybe.

Do I think that WDFW is doing a good job? Absolutely not! They care more about run-ins with moose than have you seen a wolf! They need to listen to the ranchers, hunters and others who see them and document how many there actually are and keep the numbers in check. Respond when people have problem with wolves, not turn a blind eye.

I originally posted about natural selection because it is a theory, whether it could work...? The way things are now everything, as far as ecosystems go, has been influenced by man so much that we are constantly having to rewrite the book on how to manage the planet. One thing works and then it doesn't; One thing never works; Another stumbles along and then takes off.

So after you have all gotten done calling me names, I'm here to learn and talk about it. So if you're will to talk about it instead of yelling at me, my ears are open.

And the Bullwinkle thread was getting pretty stinking boring so I thought I might spice it up a little.   

The diseases you speak of aren't the result of over population.

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[idaho guy]

Man I could have a ton of fun around camp with that mount. I have a cousin that wont walk outside at night without a flash light. He walked around the corner of his camper and saw that he would be cleaning his shorts
[/quote :tup:ha ha

[Gringo31]

This guy won't stand by his points.


Waste of time.


My favorite so far is that the west is somehow short on predators.

[idaho guy]

You really need to read up a bit. Go back in the wolf topics, you will find more info than you can imagine regarding wolves. 

Exactly.

 :yeah:this doesn't need to be discussed anymore it has truly been beat to death if you really want answers read prior threads if you are stirring the pot why?

[jmscon]

Started reading last night, made it through about the bottom third of page 38 of posts. Most post were SSS, When wolf tags go for sale in MT I'm there! and things like that. There were a couple of members asking the same questions as myself. I'll keep reading!

Gringo-
I'm going to take MT as a example:
I took this from HistoryNet: Between 1883 and 1927 Montana paid bounties on a staggering 111,545 wolves and 886,367 coyotes. Subsidizing both ranchers and wolfers, the state paid bounties on 23,575 wolves in 1899 alone. Under such pressure wolf populations declined so dramatically that in 1920 Montana paid bounties on only 17 gray wolves.

Compared to that the wolf numbers are low, under 550 minimum in 2015 (MFW&P). MT does keep track of Coyote numbers so I can't compare those. 2004 MT Grizzlies numbers in the Great Divide ecosystem were over 700 (MFW&P). 

[Gringo31]

You said many states in the west had low predator rates.


False.


True, many states in the west have low populations of wolves and grizzly bears.




It's the same BS as they try to say from Yellowstone.  We created a problem to fix something that wasn't broke.  IF it needed tweaked, we had the ability to fix it.  Creating this massive problem isn't the answer and defending it is foolish IMO.

[grundy53]

There is definitely no shortage of predators in the west.

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[ihunt]

Wolfs would be good if you have good management but you let them roam with no management it's horrible outcome