7mm mag powder?

[brew]

I use imr 4831 at 60.4gr at 3000 fps.162 sst bullets.out of a savage 111.This load has proven the most accurate at 100 to 500 yrd's. My best 5 shoot group at 100 is 1.950.
   This load I found has mild  recoil along the line's of an .06.
   Be advised this is a max load , u should work up to it and look for pressure sign's.
   I use the 162 gr sst because of the bc at 0.550. This bullet will put them down hard!

I also use IMR 4831 (62 gr) with 160 gr nosler partitions...not to stir up a hornet's nest as i usually don't critique other's success but if your "best" 5 shot group is just under 2" at 100 yards you may want to re-evaluate your load.  My browning A-bolt is almost 25 years old as well as the Vari X II Leo on it and it will group better than a bunch of crack heads looking for a dropped rock.  Good luck and keep your powder dry

[YukonHunter]

 

Which is the exact same powder as Reloader 22, so that's nice in that if you can't find one at the store you might find the other.

No, it's not. They are similar but not identical.

This is poor advice at best. Providing information like this to an admitted new reloader is dangerous and bordering on negligent. Unless you have access to the proper equipment or adequate experience to make powder substitutions, it is a poor idea to do so. The OP has neither and I suspect that you don't have the appropriate equipment or technical background to do so either.

[bobcat]

Which is the exact same powder as Reloader 22, so that's nice in that if you can't find one at the store you might find the other.

No, it's not. They are similar but not identical.

How do you know that it's not?

[cooltimber]

brew,thats outside to outside...center to center would be .680. I just measured the target with my glasses on lol . 

[bobcat]

Take a look at this thread on 24 Hour Campfire. Even John Barsness (Mule Deer) is saying they're probably the same powder, and if not they're so close that you could use the loading data interchangeably. Of course starting 10% below max and working up like always.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6532901/What_s_the_scoop_with_Norma_po

And here's a quote I saved a few years ago from someone in the know:


"For our European and African friends, who may have difficulty locating the various powders, there is an authorized substitution. Reloader-22 is exactly the thing as Norma-MRP. Reloader-19 is exactly the same thing as Norma-204. Reloader 15 is exactly the same thing as Norma-203. These powders come from exactly the same plant and are made at exactly the same time. The powder from that plant is simply shipped to a different place and is put into a different consumer pack."

[MountainWalk]

There ya have it. I respect John Barsness. 

[yorketransport]

Take a look at this thread on 24 Hour Campfire. Even John Barsness (Mule Deer) is saying they're probably the same powder, and if not they're so close that you could use the loading data interchangeably. Of course starting 10% below max and working up like always.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6532901/What_s_the_scoop_with_Norma_po

Backing up internet facts with more internet facts is like referencing Wikipedia in a doctoral thesis; it shows a complete lack of first hand knowledge or meaningful research.

Unless John Barsness is a chemical engineer for a powder manufacturer he's no more qualified as a source for information than some guy over on LRH with the screen name CrazyLary'sReloadingData. I'm not very familiar with John Barsness but my understanding is that he's a journalist, albeit a successful and prolific one. But how many people have criticized journalists for providing false information over the years? How many incredibly well qualified journalists are called liars everyday by internet experts with no actual knowledge on the subject matter? So if we can't trust those journalists, why can John Barsness be trusted on this topic?
 
I've know for years that Reloader 22 and MRP are very similar but that doesn't make them "nearly the same". Hodgdon's H870 is "nearly the same" as WC 872 but that doesn't make them interchangeable. Hodgdon H110 and Win 296 are "practically the same" but that doesn't make them interchangeable. The burn rates are variable between lots of identical powders (look up the great debate over H1000 and the new-VS-old burn rates) so imagine the differences possible between different lots of different powders.

I stand by may statement that you're providing potentially dangerous information without a reputable and verifiable source for the information. While many shooters are smart enough to extract actual facts from the volumes of "internet wisdom" out there, I sure wouldn't want to assume that everyone is capable of doing so. Just because the "google box" says it, doesn't make it true.

[brew]

brew,thats outside to outside...center to center would be 1.680. I just measured the target.I'd like to c u do better with a stock rifle. 

whoa---easy tiger....not here to start a peeing match or get the ruler out to see whose "pattern" is bigger--- or smaller.  if you are happy handloading and with the group you are getting then rock on..i'm just saying that IMHO you should be able to get a better group than what you are.

[bobcat]

Google "Norma MRP and reloader 22." There's plenty of discussion to be found on all sorts of Internet forums about the similarity of the two. I don't find these discussions "dangerous" in the least. Maybe you do, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to post about it, as I find it an interesting subject to discuss. As I said, you always start below max and work your way up.

[cooltimber]

Brew, thanks but at 70 yrs old that's the best I can do! good hunting this year to you and yours

[RadSav]

Not sure about the RL22 and the MRP being the same.  I had lot to lot variance that was quite severe with 22.  My MRP load of 68 grains does fall within that variation.  So I suppose it could be.  But so far with three different lots the MRP has been stable.  Not a huge base of measure, but so far so good.

Now N203B and R-15 have both been stable and run exactly the same powder charge for velocity in my 308.  So I can believe one is just a rebrand of the same thing between those two.

We use a lot of N204 around here.  I have not gotten a 257 Roberts load of 204 to be anywhere close to the R19.  I have only used a single lot of 19 so that base measure is limited.  But I would be surprised if they were suppose to be identical.

[yorketransport]

brew,thats outside to outside...center to center would be 1.680. I just measured the target.I'd like to c u do better with a stock rifle. 

This gives me an idea for a new thread!

Google "Norma MRP and reloader 22." There's plenty of discussion to be found on all sorts of Internet forums about the similarity of the two. I don't find these discussions "dangerous" in the least. Maybe you do, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to post about it, as I find it an interesting subject to discuss. As I said, you always start below max and work your way up.

Using a google search to validate a google search? That reminds me of an 8 year old asking a 9 year old to verify a mathematical proof for him. It's entirely possible that it will all work out to be correct. It's also possible that they both come to the conclusion that the correct answer is not 14, it's actually a kitten. (For the record that joke is hilarious if you're a big enough nerd)

There are a lot of fascinating subjects that are fun to debate and discuss. There are also better places to give speculative advice than in a forum topic where a new reloader is asking for advice from experienced individuals. As I sit here putting the final touches on a new chamber reamer design I would love to discuss the impact of small changes to case shoulder and leade angles as it pertains to peak pressures. I'd also love to discuss why my wildcats can be safely loaded with higher charge weights than similar designs. The problem is that not everyone can differentiate between speculative or theoretical advantages (or in the case of Reloader 22 and MRP similarities) and proven fact. Advanced reloading is best left to the realm of advanced reloaders. After all, none of us would want to be responsible for recommending that somebody use pistol powder in a 30-06 case for reduced loads An inexperienced handloader may find that information while doing a google search and hurt them self or somebody around them.

[bobcat]

What more can I say? If you don't like what you're reading, stop reading it. I can't guarantee with 100% certainty that they are the same powder. But people who are much more knowledgeable reloaders than I am, say they are. You don't want to believe it, then don't. I'm not worried either way.

[Ridgeratt]

I'd trust gas station sushi before some of the reloading advice on HW.

This with out question has to be the best bit of information I have seen given on here.

 

[yorketransport]

What more can I say?

Nothing hopefully. As a forum moderator I would like to believe that the safety and integrity of the forum and it's members is a priority for you. This is not the first time I've seen bad or downright dangerous reloading advice posted by you and others on here.

Jay.sharkbait's comment was tongue in cheek, but still some of the best advice I've seen on here. Far too often reloading experience and reloading skill are confused, here and in the field. It seems to me that the person with the most experience typically isn't the person with the most skill.