how to fix WA. OIL draw system

[Miles]

Well, today's moose drawing in New Hampshire has come and gone.  One more year with my name not being drawn.   Should I demand they fix their lottery system also?  After all, I've been putting in for years, I clearly deserve the tag.




Lol... Thick sarcasm above for the slower folks.

[KDB]

I agree there needs be a change with the OIL tags draws but I don't have a good answer.  I actually think Utah has a good system.  There is something else we need to consider and that is reducing tags in some deer and elk areas, especially late season tags. I think hunting elk and deer from Sept-Dec in some units is putting too much stress on the animals.

[msg]

There is no great fix to make it fairer. To many apps for the amount of tags. If you increase the up front money you will eliminate a lot of people that don't have wads of cash laying around. The revenue will go down but will give the well heeled better odds. I think the system is fair because everyone has a chance. I may be biased because I have been very lucky since the system started. Three cow tags, four quality bull. Topped off by an any moose last year. Some people are just luckier than others. One of my hunting partners is maxed out on quality bull points, he is just not lucky at permit draws but has killed more elk than I ever will. What do you say when some hits the Powerball......... Lucky Sucker

[Miles]

I heard a good one at work the other day.  A fellow hunter said that I drew my Maine moose permit this year because my dad won last year.  His reasoning was that the system is rigged and recognizes last names.  Lol. He said once one person in the family gets drawn everyone else will.


I just laughed and continued on with what I was doing.  What some people believe just amazes me.

[msg]

If you are not lucky enough to draw in Washington with 22pts. Do you really expect to do better in Idaho on a level playing field ? I work with a guy that puts in for tags in several states every year. Eight years in a row and zippo. A lot of cash outgoing and it does not all come back. You have to be in to win. But an average family guy with a bride and kids usually can't swing that. That is why Washington's system is fair to all.

[white121]

No matter what the system is if you don't get drawn you will complain about it.

[trophyhunt]

"The system is fine, the system is fair, we can't make it better ".      Read this slow and try to absorb the info.   Ok, it actually can be improved    Have people choose between putting in for deer/elk special permits OR OIL permits, still let them buy ghost points if they choose to!!!  Those guys that just put in for OIL because they can, will most likely just buy points and put in for deer/elk.     so, it can be improved because thousands of apps will drop from the oil draws.  Read it again slowly please......   Now of course this doesn't mean everyone will Draw the tag they want, it will still be tough but it will be better odds.   No brainier guys.......... Now go back and read it again! 

[stew pidasso]

"The system is fine, the system is fair, we can't make it better ".      Read this slow and try to absorb the info.   Ok, it actually can be improved    Have people choose between putting in for deer/elk special permits OR OIL permits, still let them buy ghost points if they choose to!!!  Those guys that just put in for OIL because they can, will most likely just buy points and put in for deer/elk.     so, it can be improved because thousands of apps will drop from the oil draws.  Read it again slowly please......   Now of course this doesn't mean everyone will Draw the tag they want, it will still be tough but it will be better odds.   No brainier guys.......... Now go back and read it again! 

I like having a chance at both oil and quality draws at the same time. I agree that the odds would be better. But look at it from the prospective of applicants with fewer pts than you. They would still have to draw against guys with max pts and probably not switch categories until they drew their favorite. It would benefit guys like you more though in my opinion. Trophy how many times have you chosen pts option if you don't mind answering, in quality bull only?

[trophyhunt]

"The system is fine, the system is fair, we can't make it better ".      Read this slow and try to absorb the info.   Ok, it actually can be improved    Have people choose between putting in for deer/elk special permits OR OIL permits, still let them buy ghost points if they choose to!!!  Those guys that just put in for OIL because they can, will most likely just buy points and put in for deer/elk.     so, it can be improved because thousands of apps will drop from the oil draws.  Read it again slowly please......   Now of course this doesn't mean everyone will Draw the tag they want, it will still be tough but it will be better odds.   No brainier guys.......... Now go back and read it again! 

I like having a chance at both oil and quality draws at the same time. I agree that the odds would be better. But look at it from the prospective of applicants with fewer pts than you. They would still have to draw against guys with max pts and probably not switch categories until they drew their favorite. It would benefit guys like you more though in my opinion. Trophy how many times have you chosen pts option if you don't mind answering, in quality bull only?

I don't mind, last year was the first time I ghost pointed quality elk.  I had 20 points for the bull permit and thought it was a slam dunk.  I only put in for quality elk other than that when it comes to the elk category.  I always put in for oil and quality deer, ghost point cow and buck.      To add, I also like having the option to put in for all permits each year, but I'd be willing to try the other option if it helps the odds of drawing over all.

[stew pidasso]

Well I feel for you. I only started putting in in 06 and for oil in 09. Haven't drawn an oil but I have drawn 8 tags starting in 2011. I guess that's why I'm always so optimistic applying every year. I am definitely noticing the creep of pts now but I'm all-over the board with pts so I don't have to really be concerned about drawing multiple like you do. I admit I like the system now but may change my mind when my bull pts go from 10 to 30. I'll let you know if we're still alive.

[WAcoueshunter]

"The system is fine, the system is fair, we can't make it better ".      Read this slow and try to absorb the info.   Ok, it actually can be improved    Have people choose between putting in for deer/elk special permits OR OIL permits, still let them buy ghost points if they choose to!!!  Those guys that just put in for OIL because they can, will most likely just buy points and put in for deer/elk.     so, it can be improved because thousands of apps will drop from the oil draws.  Read it again slowly please......   Now of course this doesn't mean everyone will Draw the tag they want, it will still be tough but it will be better odds.   No brainier guys.......... Now go back and read it again! 

I can read it slowly, or backwards, or in pig latin...I still don't see how it's a no brainer.  You're forcing those who have been patient and built significant points in all categories to choose.  They didn't get lucky along the way, they didn't cave and apply for something middle of the road.  They stuck it out across the board for 20+ years.  Right now, they CAN expect to draw a high end deer and/or elk tag at some point, AND still have a decent chance at an OIL.  But the change would be forcing them to choose a deer/elk tag in exchange for 0% chance at OIL.  Or keep their OIL dreams, but give up that eventual Dayton or Entiat tag.  More or less, all to benefit the single species guys and guys who already cashed in their deer/elk quality points (for full disclosure, I'm in the latter camp).  That may be an okay trade off on the whole, but no question there will be winners and losers.  Just no way to change mid-stream and make things fair for everyone. 

[kentrek]

"The system is fine, the system is fair, we can't make it better ".      Read this slow and try to absorb the info.   Ok, it actually can be improved    Have people choose between putting in for deer/elk special permits OR OIL permits, still let them buy ghost points if they choose to!!!  Those guys that just put in for OIL because they can, will most likely just buy points and put in for deer/elk.     so, it can be improved because thousands of apps will drop from the oil draws.  Read it again slowly please......   Now of course this doesn't mean everyone will Draw the tag they want, it will still be tough but it will be better odds.   No brainier guys.......... Now go back and read it again! 

I can read it slowly, or backwards, or in pig latin...I still don't see how it's a no brainer.  You're forcing those who have been patient and built significant points in all categories to choose.  They didn't get lucky along the way, they didn't cave and apply for something middle of the road.  They stuck it out across the board for 20+ years.  Right now, they CAN expect to draw a high end deer and/or elk tag at some point, AND still have a decent chance at an OIL.  But the change would be forcing them to choose a deer/elk tag in exchange for 0% chance at OIL.  Or keep their OIL dreams, but give up that eventual Dayton or Entiat tag.  More or less, all to benefit the single species guys and guys who already cashed in their deer/elk quality points (for full disclosure, I'm in the latter camp).  That may be an okay trade off on the whole, but no question there will be winners and losers.  Just no way to change mid-stream and make things fair for everyone.

 

[trophyhunt]

My biggest point is, we can make the odds better for OIL draws,  If we wanted. And that idea wouldn't take money from Wdfw.  Just an idea to better odds, I highly doubt anything will change.  The only thing I see in our future as far as change goes, more categories to pick from, mo money!

[msg]

I would prefer to deal with low odds than no odds. Just because I would love to draw a sheep tag does not mean I would like to give up applying for deer and elk permits. If it was changed now it would be to appease the people with a high number of points. The good part now is that you do have that chance to draw on one of multiple species. No matter how low the odds are. One of my sons hit 200k on a one dollar ticket this winter. That is the thrill I am looking for

[Katmai Guy]

THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN COVERED IN SOME OF THE PAST PAGES BUT DON'T HAVE TIME TO LOOK.  WHAT IF INSTEAD OF THE ONE LOW NUMBER PER PERSON, USE THE NUMBER OF SQUARED POINTS TO BE DRAWN FOR THE PERMIT?