Elite sight in issues

[northwesthunter84]

So not exactly sure what is going on, figured I would run it by some of the guru's on here.

Bow 2016 Elite Impulse 31
Draw 75# / 30"
300 arrows through it.

Arrows Easton fmj 300/ 125 grain tips
29.5"/ 571 grain finish weight blazers with nocturnals and brass inserts.

Issue1- Sight is max left and still have left impact specifically with broadhead.
2nd and 3rd axis set with bright site jig bubbles all good. Arrows are grouping just extremely left by 6 inches. Verticals remains good

Issue2- Arrows are knuckling with broadheads, with no visible contact. HDx at 13/16" with visible clearance on riser and cables.

Overhead view shows weird alignment, shooting open hand low grip so little to know torque. Bow was shooting bullet holes out the gate.

Things I have tried with no change.
Rotating the cable guard from 6 to 3 position and test firing in between at 5 and 4.
Adjusting rest slightly had a small change repeatable by 1" back right or left depending on adjustment direction.
Rechecked 2nd and 3rd axis on sight with little or no change in settings required.
Also checked nock pinch, none apparent.
On going battle for 3 weeks now.
Pics are where I am at now.

Any ideas, need shims or limbs torqued? These are options I have come across in searches.

Any ideas appreciated.thank you in advance.

[DVET253]

northwesthunter84,

     First off let me apologize up front as I can get long winded, secondly by no means am I a guru tuner but would like to help as best as I can to help narrow down and or help solve your issues.  I welcome correction from any other HuntWA members as I know there are others here with superior knowledge.

Some issues that come to mind here are:

Underspined:

     Based on the numbers you've provided the setup on my OnTarget2 software shows that you're underspined, using any of the programs filters (target, hunting, & both). But first a few more questions to further clarify, are you running the HIT brass inserts and if so are you running them at 50gr. or 75gr.?

     Secondly, Is that arrow length measurement of 29.5" from nock groove to end of shaft or raw shaft length? I ask because although OT2 is showing "weak" it’s not by much and even the smallest details, arrow length, insert weight, might be enough to show off or on "ideal spine.” When I plugged your info in, I built the arrow to get as close to your stated total arrow weight of 571gr. using the nocturnal x nocks @20gr and the HIT brass @ 50gr.

Disclaimer: I understand archery programs are not a solid “go-to” to determine how your in particular bow will perform but merely an aid to getting the ideal setup. With that said it doesn't mean that if the bow is all good setup wise (nock height, cam lean, cam sync etc…) that you could not effectively and accurately shoot an arrow that shows a little on the weak side.

     My personal experience with FMJ’s is that they, for me, tend to be very sensitive to the “ideal spine”. I’ve had bows that max at 70lbs. and coupled with my draw length (30-30.5”) I’ve had to, after all possible tuning corrections, back the DW off a pound or two and it brought the BH and FP groups together (I BH and FP tune @ 40yds).

Cam lean:

     This could also be an issue affecting your horizontal impact. If you have the means to check cam lean at full draw by using a draw board, I would recommend checking that. If any or both cams have lean at full draw this could cause impact issues as well. If any are off, you're looking at a possible re-shim to align, and as fun as it is to perform your own bow tuning, being that it is a new bow, I’d recommend having a reputable Elite dealer perform such work (wouldn’t want the possibility of the warranty to be voided).

Centershot:

     Although the HDx shows that the rest is at 13/16”, have you verified by measurement from inside of riser from berger holes to the centerline of the shaft? Not questioning the quality of QAD, but somethings I consider are what bow was that rest built around, is there the possibility of a difference between your Impulse 31’s riser thickness that might not accurately reflect the HDx’s centershot markings??? Based off the picture from “above” it looks and though the rest is set a little right.

Nock Point:
     I personally don’t feel that this is an issue here. Stating that you are only experiencing horizontal impact issues and that your vertical impact is ok, it would appear that your nock point is ok. As you're not witnessing vertical issues, it tells me the you're getting level “vertical” nock travel which is not causing porpoising of the arrow. 

2nd & 3rd Axis:

     Although important, again I don’t feel this could be the main issue. However, I am curious as to how exactly you've set this. Do you have the bench mounted leveler from Brite Site, or the riser/string mounted versions?

    Again this is just my personal preference, but when I set my 2nd and 3rd axis, I use the riser mounted level with my bow in my bow vise. Once I have a level bubble indicated off the riser (string level also shows vertical and horizontal level) I then set the 2nd axis bubble. Once set, i rotate the bow downward (forward) and recheck the riser and string bubbles before adjusting the 3rd axis.

In summation I would check/verify the easiest (cost wise) first, Cam lean & Centershot then look at arrow spine.
DVET253

[JKEEN33]

Hard to see in your picture, but it looks like you need to move your spacer. This will move your sight further left and give you additional adjustment the direction you need to move.

Update:

I looked at your other picture and you can deffinately move the spacer. move the circled spacer to the right. It will now be between the sight and the mount.

[BUTTER]

For broadheads you should move your rest before your sight

[JKEEN33]

I'll add, if your broad heads and field tips are both shooting left and you are out of adjustment, you can get more by following the above.

[D-Rock425]

Hard to see in your picture, but it looks like you need to move your spacer. This will move your sight further left and give you additional adjustment the direction you need to move.

Update:

I looked at your other picture and you can deffinately move the spacer. move the circled spacer to the right. It will now be between the sight and the mount.

yep,that should get you hitting the target but things still seem off center.

[D-Rock425]

Have you tried to walk back tune it?

[JKEEN33]

Hard to see in your picture, but it looks like you need to move your spacer. This will move your sight further left and give you additional adjustment the direction you need to move.

Update:

I looked at your other picture and you can deffinately move the spacer. move the circled spacer to the right. It will now be between the sight and the mount.

yep,that should get you hitting the target but things still seem off center.

Yes, reading closer and looking at the pics again, there is more to this. First pic looks like arrow is to the far right in the site. How did you adjust the axis? Like to help more, but heading out myself to set up camp.

[BULLBLASTER]

I'm saying under spined as well. Do the broadheads group with the field tips? What broadheads?

[DaveMonti]

following

[northwesthunter84]

Ok to answer questions, the Brite site is the bench mounted version.  I have tried moving the rest both directions and put it back at 13/16", specks for the bow are 3/4"to13/16".  No major impact change left to right with adjustment as stated in the original post.

I can switch the spacer for the desired result just seems weird that the difference in angles from at rest to POI.  Most tests are at 50 yards.  .

As far as spine is concerned my only option is to try and shoot 100's, 300 spine in the fmj's is the final before going even stiffer with the dangerous game.

Broadheads group but 5" left of field points. Broadheads are Shuttle T's 125 gr.

I used a similar method to walk back tuning with single arrow, and shooting in groups of targets IE 10-20-30,adjust; 20-30-40, adjust; 30-40-50, adjust (with field points) broadhead issues started and sight adjustment seemed excessive so I have not done that with them.

HIIT brass inserts are at 50 gr. Arrow length is from nock groove to end of shaft. I already backed draw weight off from 82-75#'s.

I may pick up some 100's and test them, probably going to hunt with my Z7 again this year unless I have a major breakthrough.

Thank you all for the help.

[BULLBLASTER]

Try 100 grainers and possibly drop draw weight more. I think you would actually be better off with the 250 spine dangerous game arrows. I'm still saying spine more than anything else. High draw weight and long draw equals need for stiff arrows. Good luck

[DVET253]

Try 100 grainers and possibly drop draw weight more. I think you would actually be better off with the 250 spine dangerous game arrows. I'm still saying spine more than anything else. High draw weight and long draw equals need for stiff arrows. Good luck

  SOOOO true! Currently working with my buddy who's a 33" draw and shooting 70lbs, we're about one step shy of cutting raw timber and glueing points and vanes on for his arrows..... 

You could try the DG FMJ's however you will be up over 700gr total arrow weight with the DG .250 which IIRC is 17.7 GPI and thats just using the standard HIT insert. Heavy arrow....Yes, but you'd have one hell of a trajectory.

You can also try the Axis in the .260 which is 11.5GPI and still remain around the same total arrow weight. Which when using the standard 16gr HIT insert & 125gr point/BH gives you 10.6% FOC, approx. 290FPS, and according to your setup on OT2, is money using the "hunting" filter on the spine matching tab weighing in at approx 518gr total arrow weight.

Or with 125's and 50gr HIT brass: 13% FOC, approx. 281FPS, total arrow weight ~ 552gr and is still within limits.

P.S. Yeah I'm a little biased with Easton's, just out of lack of experience with other branded arrows! 

[demontang]

Have you played with the center shot? The picture looks to me like that is off but hard to tell. I don't think your spine is off I'm shooting 300 goldtip cut at 29.5 470grns total with no problems I'm leaning toward centers hot needed investigated. 

[Jellymon]

Cable slide is needs to be rotated towards the arrow as well. There is a lot of extra space between your vanes and the cables, you want as little as possible. This puts a lot of uneccesary tension of the cams and will cause tuning issues.