Muzzleloader Hunters

[Ridgerunner]

Anyone out there hunt with a muzzleloader?  I'm thinking about picking it up this year but have never done it.  It looks pretty fun.

[sisu]

I have been toying with this same subject. At first I was going to go traditional but after looking things over I am siding with the modern black powder gun with iron sites.

[bobcat]

I've hunted both deer and elk off and on over the years with muzzleloaders. I have a Lyman traditional (side lock) muzzleloader in 54 caliber and a Thompsen/Center Black Diamond in 50 cal.

IIRC, I've killed two deer and two elk with them. Most years I hunt the rifle seasons, but sometimes the early or late muzzleloader season fits my schedule better. This year I'm buying a muzzleloder westside elk tag, and probably a rifle tag for deer, but I may do muzzleloader for deer as well.

[billythekidrock]

I am considering a ML for this spring bear hunt.

One thing to remember is that inline MLs are not legal during ML seasons.
You can use inlines for bears all season as well as deer and elk during modern firearms and in firearm restricted areas.

[BnB]

Billy. Can't use a inline for bear? You thinking Idaho? Looked at the 2006 regs and they say any ML for bear.

[BnB]

Page 55 of last years regs. As long as original style caps fit on the nipple. No 209 primers. Idaho changed their ML regs for this year but back peddled a little on them. I might be wrong but I have not heard of any changes here in WA. Never have owned an inline, only sidelocks. At the risk of being flamed I wouldn't mind seeing some changes.   

[billythekidrock]

Billy. Can't use a inline for bear? You thinking Idaho? Looked at the 2006 regs and they say any ML for bear.

Read again...

You can use inlines for bears all season as well as deer and elk during modern firearms and in firearm restricted areas.

[BnB]

Are you saying you can't use an inline during Washington ML seasons? I'm old and might be missing something.

[billythekidrock]

You asked if you could/couldn't use them for bear and I posted "you can use inlines for bears all season".

Let me clarify my statement above. I was using inline in too broad of a sense.  First when I refer to inline I mean the 209 primer, rear loading, closed breach or scoped type. These are illegal for deer or elk during ML season. They are legal for bear all year long as well as for elk & deer during Modern firearm season in firearm restricted areas (as are shotguns).

And yes, inlines that use percussion caps on the nipple are legal, but they must load from the muzzle and be open to the elements.

Sorry for any confusion.

[BnB]

The way I read the regs, on page 13 of last years pamphlet it says, yes you can use a ML during modern deer but it must meet the the regulations on page 55. No 209 primers and caps must be exposed to the elements. Under firearm restriction area hunt, page 57, your ML must meet equipment restrictions. You cannot use the newer break open style that use 209 primers and have a scope for any hunts here in Wa. There are some exceptions for scopes but the average hunter can't use one. Don't want to start problems but I am pretty sure they are illegal, the newer break open ones, all the way around. I run into game dept officers in the Blues and around the Snake often and just for my own sake will ask them. They look like fun and might be tempted to get one but don't think they should be used during a ML season.

[BnB]

Should have said I might be tempted to get one if they are legal here.

[WDFW-SUX]

I went on a AHE elk hunt at the Julia butler hansen wildlife refuge and hunters were alloud to use any ML that they could find.  At least half of the hunters had sealed breach weapons that were using 209 shotgun primers.  The warden who administered the hunt said they were OK because the hunt was on federal land and being federally administered.  They were also aloud to use scopes.  You can use a smoke pole during modern season so long as you have a modern tag. I have seen it many times and been told that it was ok by game wardens and the folks on the phone at WDFW that lesser weapons were fair game.  There are a few exceptions like crossbows and snares for big game but for the most part they dont care what you use.

[bobcat]

I have always thought it was as Billy is saying, that any muzzleloader could be used during modern firearm season, but after taking a quick look at the regs, it seems that BnB makes a good point. The way it is written it DOES appear to say that muzzleloaders must ALWAYS meet the muzzleloader restrictions.

As BnB said, on page 13 for modern firearm deer season, it says "modern firearm, muzzleloader, and archery equipment must meet equipment regulations on page 55." It says the same thing on page 33 for modern firearm elk seasons.

For bears it says "hunters may use any lawful big game modern firearm, archery, or muzzleloader equipment."  So the question there would be, what is "lawful?" I would take that to mean that even for bears, muzzleloaders must meet the restrictions listed on page 55.

But, knowing that the rules in the regulation pamphlet are NOT the actual and complete laws, I think I would take a look at the WAC's and/or RCW's, and find out what the law really says regarding this. I suspect it is just as Billy says. But, to me it really doesn't matter, in the case where a rifle is not allowed, I would use a scoped shotgun with a rifled barrel, rather than a muzzleloader.

[BnB]

Bobcat. Thats the way I read. There might be other laws not in the pamphlet but I cannot imagine them  saying one thing and allowing another and not putting it in the regs. LOL, well I guess I can. Hey, if you really want a discussion how about a guy shoots a deer with a sealed breech, 209 primer ML and back at camp has the head off and his tag on the antlers. Game warden drives up. How many tickets?

[bobcat]

My guess would be none. My cousin has a co-worker who just started hunting the muzzleloader season a couple years ago. He went out and bought a T/C Encore. If you don't know, that is a sealed breach inline M/L with a 209 primer ignition. He got checked last year by a game warden, and nothing was said about the muzzleloader not meeting the requirements. The game warden even asked to see it, and the guy handed it to him, he looked at it and said nothing. Apparently, some game wardens do not know how to tell a legal muzzleloader from an illegal muzzleloader. And with the Encore, it should be obvious.