GMU 239/224/231 - Methow/Twisp

[baldopepper]

I consider wildfires (90% are human caused) and harsh winter kills (to a great extent caused by human caused wildfire and urbaization of prime winter habitat) to be part of the human encroachment problem. We see hunting harvest numbers but we never see any real numbers of road kill animals.  Simply more  and more traffic on the roads, more animals being hit. Heck, around my place I don't think the predators need to hunt, there's a fresh road kill to eat every couple of miles.  I don't discount entirely the predator problem, but I do see a correlation between booming human population growth in the west and sharply declining populations of big game

[bigmacc]

I consider wildfires (90% are human caused) and harsh winter kills (to a great extent caused by human caused wildfire and urbaization of prime winter habitat) to be part of the human encroachment problem. We see hunting harvest numbers but we never see any real numbers of road kill animals.  Simply more  and more traffic on the roads, more animals being hit. Heck, around my place I don't think the predators need to hunt, there's a fresh road kill to eat every couple of miles.  I don't discount entirely the predator problem, but I do see a correlation between booming human population growth in the west and sharply declining populations of big game

👍👍exactly, multifaceted. There’s many reasons herds are struggling, depending where you are it could be one of them, two of them or a handful of reasons. In my neck of the woods I’ve explained in depth why I think the number 1 is predators. I remember a nephew that got his first job in the Shoshone area around Cody, probably 30-40 years ago maybe he would call and say” uncle, you cannot believe the number of road kill down here”. He said they would make the drive between the east entrance of Yellowstone and Cody (maybe 40 miles ) he would say they would pick up hundreds of deer a month, the truckers had cattle catchers in front of their rigs to just plow through the herds of deer and elk that would stand in the road, licking salt. Well, I seen pictures, some fricken huge bucks, a dime a dozen, rotting in ditches. I guess that area is being overrun with predators nowadays, that stretch between  Yellowstone and Cody, tough to see a deer or elk. I guess they’ve picked up some very skinny wolves and cats that have been mowed over, but the days of picking up dozens of elk and deer per week are gone. The beginning of a predator pit ? Once again, I don’t know. What’s the common denominator? 

[NOCK NOCK]

I consider wildfires (90% are human caused) and harsh winter kills (to a great extent caused by human caused wildfire and urbaization of prime winter habitat) to be part of the human encroachment problem. We see hunting harvest numbers but we never see any real numbers of road kill animals.  Simply more  and more traffic on the roads, more animals being hit. Heck, around my place I don't think the predators need to hunt, there's a fresh road kill to eat every couple of miles.  I don't discount entirely the predator problem, but I do see a correlation between booming human population growth in the west and sharply declining populations of big game

This was one of my points in the other thread. It was OK to group predators into one bunch for the sake of mortalities aka "predator pit", but didn't seem to be Ok to group "human caused" mortalities.




Predator/Prey cycles. Looks to me like we are at the top, or near the top of the cycle currently. In Bigmaccs glory days we were most likely at the bottom. And who knows how many years before that, the Methow was at the top of the cycle. Rinse and repeat. This cycle has been ongoing long before humans started to screw with it. So humans are the most obvious deciding factor in overall herd health. IMHO.

Look at WA population densities compared to other Mule deer hunting states like Montana. Do you see the correlation? 

[bigmacc]

I consider wildfires (90% are human caused) and harsh winter kills (to a great extent caused by human caused wildfire and urbaization of prime winter habitat) to be part of the human encroachment problem. We see hunting harvest numbers but we never see any real numbers of road kill animals.  Simply more  and more traffic on the roads, more animals being hit. Heck, around my place I don't think the predators need to hunt, there's a fresh road kill to eat every couple of miles.  I don't discount entirely the predator problem, but I do see a correlation between booming human population growth in the west and sharply declining populations of big game

This was one of my points in the other thread. It was OK to group predators into one bunch for the sake of mortalities aka "predator pit", but didn't seem to be Ok to group "human caused" mortalities.




Predator/Prey cycles. Looks to me like we are at the top, or near the top of the cycle currently. In Bigmaccs glory days we were most likely at the bottom. And who knows how many years before that, the Methow was at the top of the cycle. Rinse and repeat. This cycle has been ongoing long before humans started to screw with it. So humans are the most obvious deciding factor in overall herd health. IMHO.

Look at WA population densities compared to other Mule deer hunting states like Montana. Do you see the correlation?

No more. Nock. You believe your history and your theories. I will believe mine👍 good luck. I know my history, my family journals and 3 different family members in 3 different Game Departments. Alaska, Washington and Idaho.  No one will convince me that predators are not impacting our game herds. And that they are not the number 1 reason that in “modern times” , are decimating our deer and elk herds. …. Camp Grisdale? Well, hell that’s another story.

Another whole history involving a pretty good elk herd.👍

[baldopepper]

LOL-I gotta get you across a campfire and twist your ears a bit bigmac.  Last man still sitting straight wins the argument

[Igor]

Someone here is a glutton for punishment....................

[bigmacc]

LOL-I gotta get you across a campfire and twist your ears a bit bigmac.  Last man still sitting straight wins the argument

Would love to sir😆 I think we would have a good time.

[bigmacc]

Someone here is a glutton for punishment....................

My hand is raised Igor. I just can’t help it when I’m called out. I can back up every thought AND story. Thank god for numerous albums and journals.👍😆🤣