Frustrated with archery hunting;

[Buzz2401]

There is for sure a larger margin of error. Not by any means saying rifle hunters are more elite or better or anything like that.  Put a arrow in the right place animals die with a quickness.  But like you said the margin is smaller with a arrow then a large caliber rifle.  As far as wounded game living. I know from personal experience that wounded game can live on but I don't feel it should be an excuse to keep hunting, because plenty of wounded animals don't make it.

[northwesthunter84]

Npaull I have had the luck to have taken many deer and an elk with multiple weapon types. Your comment about the anatomy makes no sense unless a quartering too shot is taken. I have shot animals 6" back from the shoulder with a firearm broadside. 40 yard pile up double lung. My guess is you tend to high shoulder shoot. Sucks to loose that much meat, also neck shots in my book are lower percentage, your just using shock. Seen a few of those animals get up and keep trucking.

[blackveltbowhunter]

There is for sure a larger margin of error. Not by any means saying rifle hunters are more elite or better or anything like that.  Put a arrow in the right place animals die with a quickness.  But like you said the margin is smaller with a arrow then a large caliber rifle.  As far as wounded game living. I know from personal experience that wounded game can live on but I don't feel it should be an excuse to keep hunting, because plenty of wounded animals don't make it.

  Your post states that an Archers motto should be 60 percent of the time it works everytime. I am not offended thats your opinion. Mine is, that saying that about archery is very one dimensional and I apply that motto to any irresponsible hunter regardless of whether they are throwing a spear or using a 338 ultra mag.

   I guess when it comes to wounding i use a scenario based equation and let that guide my consciounsce.  For example say, I shoot a buck At the shot there is no impact noise and no real reaction to the hit from the animal, no dropping, lunging etc. Upon examining where the animal was standing I find a large spray of hair that appears consistent with main body.  Light snow on the ground shows a small spray of blood behind him. No other indication of a hit, bone fragment or meat. I take up the trail and the animal slows down after a hundred yards still in light snow. I have cut a half a dozen small drop of blood, usually slightly off the trail on the opposite side of the shot where tracks show he "bounced". He has slowed to a trot then steady walk and  I continue on the tracks in the snow with no more blood after the initial hundred yard dash. I finally run out of snow and lose his track in some rocky cliffs 5-6 hundred yards from the initial shot location. He was mainly side hilling then climbed sharply as he entered the rocks prior to losing tracks all together. Obviously every one has to make their own choice and there is no way to say with 100 percent certainty that this would be a wound the buck died from, but myself I would say a prayer to wish him luck, sorry for the inconvenience and continue to hunt.

 

[npaull]

Npaull I have had the luck to have taken many deer and an elk with multiple weapon types. Your comment about the anatomy makes no sense unless a quartering too shot is taken. I have shot animals 6" back from the shoulder with a firearm broadside. 40 yard pile up double lung. My guess is you tend to high shoulder shoot. Sucks to loose that much meat, also neck shots in my book are lower percentage, your just using shock. Seen a few of those animals get up and keep trucking.

Nope, my comment and advice about the anatomy is dead-on, although it sounds like it may be getting misinterpreted. I'm not talking about the neck, I'm talking about how to shoot an animal in the chest such that it dies almost immediately. You need to crowd the "V" of the humerus and scapula, way forward of "the crease." If you put a shot right at the vertex there, you'll go just OVER the top of the heart and take out the great vessels right as they leave the heart. The result is the most devastating injury a vertebrate can sustain short of decapitation. It's just an anatomical and physiological fact.

[huntingbaldguy]

We had an issue last season.  My wife has a 22" draw and was shooting 45 lbs.  I built her some 480 grain arrows with an 18% FOC, because i read on the internet that they deliver more energy and penetrate better.  Long story short she took a shot at 11 yards on a spike last season.  It's dead, i know it is.  We never found it.  The blood trail was incredible, followed it through a patch of thick brush, easy to follow.  Followed it all the way out into a clear cut... where the blood disappeared.  We searched for 4 hrs in the dark.  We then searched for 3 hrs the next day with extra help.  Never found it. Found her arrow and it only got about 5 inches of penetration with a 2 blade cut on contact broadhead.

I talked to a lot of people about it, that know far more than i about arrow building.  They all said the same thing.  Too front heavy, and too heavy period.  She now shoots a 380 grain arrow at 10% FOC but we haven't gotten to test them on an animal yet.  I can tell you they fly better and penetrate our targets better but the true test has yet to come.  She did kill a deer last year with the same arrows at 7 yards.  Perfect broadside shot, double lunged, but i still was less than impressed with the penetration she got, so thus the new lighter arrows were built.

[Browndawg]

I've seen double lungers bleed like you hit em in the hoof. I've lost elk I know we're dead. I've lost elk I knew survived, and killed them the next year with my broadhead still in them. This happens with rifle hunters as well. Don't be discouraged and remember, coyotes need to eat too.

[Sneaky]

We had an issue last season.  My wife has a 22" draw and was shooting 45 lbs.  I built her some 480 grain arrows with an 18% FOC, because i read on the internet that they deliver more energy and penetrate better.  Long story short she took a shot at 11 yards on a spike last season.  It's dead, i know it is.  We never found it.  The blood trail was incredible, followed it through a patch of thick brush, easy to follow.  Followed it all the way out into a clear cut... where the blood disappeared.  We searched for 4 hrs in the dark.  We then searched for 3 hrs the next day with extra help.  Never found it. Found her arrow and it only got about 5 inches of penetration with a 2 blade cut on contact broadhead.

I talked to a lot of people about it, that know far more than i about arrow building.  They all said the same thing.  Too front heavy, and too heavy period.  She now shoots a 380 grain arrow at 10% FOC but we haven't gotten to test them on an animal yet.  I can tell you they fly better and penetrate our targets better but the true test has yet to come.  She did kill a deer last year with the same arrows at 7 yards.  Perfect broadside shot, double lunged, but i still was less than impressed with the penetration she got, so thus the new lighter arrows were built.

FOC is a crucial aspect in terms of penetration, but must also be used in conjunction with a realistic arrow weight. Seeing as she is limited by her equipment, I would be looking for that extra advantage. In a 380gr arrow you can still achieve 15-18% FOC if you select the right arrow shaft. I would look at black eagle rampages for that setup in 400 spine. You could build these at 380 or less grains.

[Magnum_Willys]

The Maryland Bowhunting Study of 848 deer hit  showed 18% not recovered.   I don't doubt those percentages.   The good news is that studies show 90% lost deer surviving ( I do doubt that percentage).

Game can be lost with bow or rifle, its just more likely to happen to the bow hunter - on average.  Its part of the process.