bullet performance discussions

[yorketransport]

The most fascinating part of hunting, to me, is the terminal performance of the weapon used. As a rule, I never hunt with a gun that I've already used to take an animal because I want to test a different platform every time. This year I was either going to use a 480 Ruger revolver or a rifle I had built for my son. In this case I went with the rifle since there is a bit of interest in the terminal performance of the round. I'm not initially going to say the cartridge or the range because I want to get some other people's opinions on the performance. I'll post pics of the deer a little later in the thread but since the rifle is in the picture, I don't want to give away the likely chambering used. I will say that the deer is a young spike which I imagine played a roll in the bullet performance.

The shot was a head on shot with an ever so slight quartering angle so I held to the right side of the brisket. At the shot, the buck dropped to his knees, then jumped up and hit the brush which is when I lost sight of him. I immediately second guessed my shot placement based on the reaction. There was no blood trail, no discernible trail of any kind and no noise/thrashing to clue me in to where he went. I was already questioning the shot and performance so I assumed he ran a ways.  It actually took me an hour to find the deer which had only gone 15 yards (probably 5 yards of that was rolling down the hill) because he piled up under the waist high ferns and Oregon grape on a relatively steep hill. Here's how I found him.


When I got him back to the trail I confirmed that my shot impacted exactly where I held, lower half of the right side of the brisket. The right front shoulder was broken and the bullet appeared to be just under the skin all the way back in the paunch just inside the right leg. I waited to gut him until I made the very long drag out (took just shy of 2 hours) to the closest road where I gutted him. Here's the damage I found while field dressing:





I was impressed to say the least. The bullet is a 6.5mm 130 Accubond. The recovered bullet weighs 103.3 grains and expanded perfectly.


I got home and started skinning the buck and was absolutely astonished by the damage done by the little accubond. Granted, some of the bloodied meat is the result of blood pooling from the time it hit the ground to the time I had it skinned out. If it had bled out instead of remaining in he body cavity it may have looked a bit different. The damage cause is what amazed me. Here's the point of entry.


Here's where it passed into the rib cage.


One of the big questions was how well the little 130 Accubond would hold up and perform. It penetrated in a straight line for 27" and retained 80% of it's weight! This included breaking 3 ribs and going through the paunch; I was very impressed.

I met up with my father in law while dropping the meat off at the shop to get cut and I showed him the damage done and asked him which gun he though I used and the range. Based on what he saw he guessed a high velocity hit at close range. The guys at the meat shop made a similar comment about that's what happens when you shoot small deer with big guns. When I told them that this was done by a 130 Accubond in 6.5 mm they were stunned.

At this point I feel like I may have underestimated the performance of some of the small bore rounds. I've always been a medium (.338 and up) caliber guy, but the only real advantage I can see from a larger bore in this case may have been a blood trail to follow. Feel free to guess the cartridge used and impact velocity. Also, if you have any good info on bullet performance from this year please share it.

[Angry Perch]

.264 LBC?

[Thefishguy77]

Creedmore?


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[jay.sharkbait]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

[Buzz2401]

6.5 grendel.   You had great penetration but I feel the overall damage to the vitals isn't really that impressive for the average deer calibers (308 win, 270, 30-06).  It put holes in them which is good but didn't really seem to blow them to pieces which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it

[Buzz2401]

One other thing it seems like you need more then one sample per gun to get a good idea of TP.  I only use two calibers with two different bullets but have had lots of different outcomes depending on range and where billet impacts.  Shot deer this year with a muzzleloader for the first time and was really surprised at the lack of performance from a 285gr bullet.

[lamrith]

6.5 grendel.   You had great penetration but I feel the overall damage to the vitals isn't really that impressive for the average deer calibers (308 win, 270, 30-06).  It put holes in them which is good but didn't really seem to blow them to pieces which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it

^^ Given the bullet weight that is my guess as well.  The 129ABLR is also supposed to be a very good round for that caliber, though 123g is much more common.

[whacker1]

i had the same experience with a 140 grain accubond out of a 270 10 years ago.  reverse order.  texas hearts shot ran the length of the animal and was lodged in the brisket. 

[Ridgeratt]

6.5 TCU for an odd ball choice

[h20hunter]

Tagging for sure. Im going with 168gr sierra matchkings for my 308 ar10 308 build. Im thinking varget mid range load and wok up towards max. Ill take any feedback on bullet oerformance on game.

[MoparDoctor]

Matchkings are not constructed to be a hunting bullet but dead deer usually don't complain.

[Thefishguy77]

Tagging for sure. Im going with 168gr sierra matchkings for my 308 ar10 308 build. Im thinking varget mid range load and wok up towards max. Ill take any feedback on bullet oerformance on game.

Look at the Berger VLD hunting hybrid bullet. They fly as good as the match kings and hit like a ton of bricks. My group I  hunt with all use AR 10 (308) variants and all settled on that round. With playing with different hand loads we settled on varget for a powder and all group around 1/2 minute @ 100 M.   Using IMR4064 I was able to shoot 1/2-3/4 minute groups as well.


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[freezerfull]

I'm gonna go 6.5x55 swede at 2750 mv. Shot at 75 yards. Love the accubond, recovered mine this year just under the skin on my whitetails butt.

[yorketransport]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

That's oddly specific but darn close!

6.5 TCU for an odd ball choice

Man I miss my TCU....

.264 LBC?

That's it! I ran the little CZ 527 at about 50 yards.

6.5 grendel.   You had great penetration but I feel the overall damage to the vitals isn't really that impressive for the average deer calibers (308 win, 270, 30-06).  It put holes in them which is good but didn't really seem to blow them to pieces which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it

I agree that the damage was in line with a 308, 270 or 30-06 and that was what surprised me. Consider that the impact velocity was only about 2350 fps though. I was just surprised by the damage done at relatively low velocity by the small bore round. I've seen significantly less tissue damage done by a 225gr Partition at over 2600 fps impact velocity.

Over all I'm really happy with how the accubond performed. It penetrated well, expanded well at the impact velocity and followed an almost JFK magic bullet like path managing to hit every vital organ.

[Chesapeake]

Looks about like normal accubond performance to me. They blow up the front on impact and then the back end drives on through. Lots of folks call them accubombs in response.

Advertised minimum velocity is 1800 fps I believe.

[Special T]

Cool post. I've been thinking about that round...

[jay.sharkbait]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

[Special T]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

I have no idea what that round is... what case is it based off?

[jay.sharkbait]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

I have no idea what that round is... what case is it based off?

Old Italian military cartridge. Similar ballistics as the Grendel and similar terminal performance on 100-200 pound mammals.

[HawkCreek]

It would be interesting to see more "tests" like this. Much more telling that ballistics gel and perfect conditions.

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

I have no idea what that round is... what case is it based off?

He's referencing the rifle and distance of the JFK assassination...

[jay.sharkbait]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

I have no idea what that round is... what case is it based off?

He's referencing the rifle and distance of the JFK assassination...

Bingo. Actually the first shots were closer. The headshot was 88( maybe).

[yorketransport]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

I have no idea what that round is... what case is it based off?

He's referencing the rifle and distance of the JFK assassination...

Bingo. Actually the first shots were closer. The headshot was 88( maybe).

Come on now, we all know it was one bullet fired from the Texas School book depository........

I have the only documented case of a "magic bullet" here.

[jay.sharkbait]

6.5 Carcano at 88 yards?

No one?

Nobody?

Geeze

I have no idea what that round is... what case is it based off?

He's referencing the rifle and distance of the JFK assassination...

Bingo. Actually the first shots were closer. The headshot was 88( maybe).

Come on now, we all know it was one bullet fired from the Texas School book depository........

I have the only documented case of a "magic bullet" here.

Uhhhhh, ok

Back and to the left

[jay.sharkbait]

6.5 Grendel

130 grain Accubond

Broke one rib near side one far side and destroyed heart.

[yorketransport]

 Nice! How was the exit wound?

[jay.sharkbait]

Nice! How was the exit wound?

Good. It left a very short, but useable blood trail.

Heart definately wasn't working.

[2labs]

Keep inventing the wheel?  6.5x55!

[jay.sharkbait]

Keep inventing the wheel?  6.5x55!

Grendel allows you to use a much smaller platform.

[yorketransport]

Keep inventing the wheel?  6.5x55!

Grendel allows you to use a much smaller platform.

The 6.5x55 is a very cool round, but it needs a medium-long action to function. The little Grendel works out of a mini action even smaller than a standard short action. The CZ 527 platform is built around 2.800" cartridges like the 223 and 7.62x39 so it's smaller in every dimension.

[7mmstalker]

My .02 worth...
Premium controlled expansion bullets are the magic to add versatility to  any cartridge. Medium sized can penetrate like an '06 or 270Win, 30-06 class will kill with authority of bigger magnums.
Excellent expansion and penetration .
Just returned from caribou hunting and used a 300 WSM with Accubond 165gr slugs. My son finished,after my less than perfect shot, with a 150gr X bullet out  a 7mm Rem mag.
 We didn't get to have our slugs to examine, both pass-throughs at 300 yards broadside. Although very little hydraulic damage usually found with high velocity.
 I used to complain about the cost of premium bullets, never again.

Not trying to hi-jack the the thread, the pics here  of Yorke's blacktail really show the beauty of a comfortable, accurate chambering at max potential from quality loads.
The popular european hunting loads bear this out, I am always reading that the 6.5 swede is a very common moose hunting round.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Congratz on the Buck yorke! And thanks for the info.   I have a question, what is a 6.5 LBC? And another question, I am getting pretty serious about a centerfire rifle for my daughter. She is small. I am familiar with the usual "small" deer cartridges, 7mm08, .243 etc..... but these other calibers sound like they may even more shootable for small frame shooters and/or able to be built on platforms that may be more comfortable.  Is this true or not? Sorry to derail, if i need to start another thread I am happy to!

[yorketransport]

Congratz on the Buck yorke! And thanks for the info.   I have a question, what is a 6.5 LBC? And another question, I am getting pretty serious about a centerfire rifle for my daughter. She is small. I am familiar with the usual "small" deer cartridges, 7mm08, .243 etc..... but these other calibers sound like they may even more shootable for small frame shooters and/or able to be built on platforms that may be more comfortable.  Is this true or not? Sorry to derail, if i need to start another thread I am happy to!

The 264 LBC is just a 6.5 Grendel with some changes to the throat angle. It shoots factory 6.5 Grendel just fine. The 6.5 Grendel, if you're not familiar with it, is essentially a 7.62x39 case necked down to 6.5 and improved slightly. Kind of like a 6.5 PPC.

I had the little CZ 527 used on these 2 deer built for my son and it's perfect for him. It started as a 527 Carbine in 7.62x39 and I had it rebarreled by Grizz Precision to 264 LBC/6.5 Grendel with a 20" barrel. The size and weight is perfect for small stature shooters, but not so small that it won't fit a full size adult, even a guy who's well over 6'! I like it so much that it's become my go to truck/walking through the woods rifle. I believe that Howa has a new mini action that they're chambering in 6.5 Grendel as well which would likely be a faster, less expensive way to get the same result.

There are quite a few new cartridges floating around that were originally intended for the AR 15 platform that (like the Grendel) that would work great in a little bolt action too. I'm a big fan of the little 6mm BR case and the other rounds built off of it. I'm just starting to work with another round called the 270 AR that should offer a decent performance advantage over the 6.5 grendel. It would be a great round to chamber in one of these little mini actions if you could make it fit.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Great to Know!! Based off this I will be putting more time into researching options as the 6.5 certainly sounds like an excellent option. Thank you again.

[jay.sharkbait]

That rifle allowed me to cover ground that I wouldn't have been able to cover with my other hunting rifles.

Rifle has a serious punch for such a small package and is very accurate.My shot was under 400 but more than Yorke's and I would not hesitate to use 6.5 Grendel on an Elk.