Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?

[270Shooter]

There are simply too many hunters in too small of an area. If there was a way to limit the amount of hunters in certain gmus or regions there would be a vast improvement in quality bucks. And by limited the number of hunters in the field we could move the seasons back to later date to allow for a better overall experience. I'd rather hunt every other year or two and have a quality hunt, than hunt with my otc tag every year and struggle to find a young 3 point to shoot.

This is aimed at rifle deer hunting, I don't think there is any need to change anything with archery or muzzleloader seasons.

[csaaphill]

Can't comment on that area but I do know the 3pt rule has been in place for a long time now, and yes! each year I see several big or small two pt deer.
I've been saying for a couple of years now they need to change that rule up now.
At first it was good and seeing bucks where I'd not was a joy, but now it's like 
The issue is no one ever really says much to WDFW it's there that our voice should be heard.
It's been in place for decades now, and needs to change. I'd support a two pt minimum rule for a few years then go to something else then maybe any buck again for a while, but not for decades.
Spike only for elk needs to change too.

[huntnphool]

  Guess my point is eliminating the 3pt restriction but keeping a LONG general season that we have would kill off a very large portion of 1.5-2.5 yo deer

 Without also reducing the number of hunters in the field, it would kill off a very large portion of the 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 etc. etc. yo deer as well.

[huntnnw]

ALL mule deer units should be permit only!! Absolutely zero management by WDFW on mule deer its a free for all statewide for 2 weeks with rifles on a animal that is very easy to kill under the age of 4.5. Its a miracle in most units to see bucks that age or older. Almost every state out west manages their mule deer herd well and with permits! Look at NV for instance.. the entire state is permit has 10x the habitat and a fraction of human population as we do. They also have estimated 150,000 mule deer! Yet here in WA we get to all head out and shoot em up. 

[270Shooter]

ALL mule deer units should be permit only!! Absolutely zero management by WDFW on mule deer its a free for all statewide for 2 weeks with rifles on a animal that is very easy to kill under the age of 4.5. Its a miracle in most units to see bucks that age or older. Almost every state out west manages their mule deer herd well and with permits! Look at NV for instance.. the entire state is permit has 10x the habitat and a fraction of human population as we do. They also have estimated 150,000 mule deer! Yet here in WA we get to all head out and shoot em up.

people don't want to hear it but that is what needs to happen.

[huntnnw]

its what needs to happen..is it a popular choice for most? prolly not. Its pathetic to see what we call mule deer hunting in this state..Ive heard from multiple people who were in the Winthrop,twisp and methow areas talk about the zoo of hunters. The only decent mule deer hunting in this state is people who are privileged to either own large pieces of private or have access to large pieces where only a few deer are taken a year and the other option is people who can hike into absolute crap holes that a lot cannot simply do for reasons. We in the state of WA have a relative small habitat for mule deer and the highest population of people of all western states other than CA.

[bb76]

I'm not an expert by any means on deer management. I think some changes might help with the herd. There isn't a silver bullet to fix the problem. Several people have said too many hunters. Others have said predators are the problem.

1. Move the season later in the year and shorter. Helps to limit hunter numbers. Some people won't want to make the trip in the snow.
2. Change the regulations to either 2 point or allow 2x1 to count as a 3 point.
3. Start hunting predators in the area.
4. Make a bunch of noise for the Fish and Wildlife to get your views heard.



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[Duckslayer89]

One thing that bothers me is these guys that go after mulies in the early season, then if they don't fill their tags they come hunt the late blacktail hunt. Choose one or the other.

[huntnnw]

One thing I have said for years is if we have to pick what side for elk..why not for deer?

[BGLEMIN]

Mule deer should be by permit only to limit the hunting pressure, and any buck should be legal. IMO

I would support this as long as they have out a reasonable number of permits and by that I mean you should be able to have a buck tag every few years.

I'd say there should be enough tags issued so that people draw at least every other year, on average.

Another option would be OTC tags with a quota per region, or GMU.

This is exactly the track hunters should take with regards to mule deer and will increase the diversity of the herd. If you cull only the bucks with genes that produce antlers with greater than 2 point, then the breeding is done by only those 2 point genes. A diverse herd must be harvested diversely.

[boneaddict]

Move the season later? Are you serious?
2x1 equals a three point.   Oh my! 

The reason you guys see two points is its all that is left.  I guarantee if it wasn't 3 point or better, you wouldn't see them either. Lol.

Two points aren't the destruction of the herd.  Most of those two points will be nice bucks if you let them live more than two years.  Yes, there are an occasional big one.  There always has been.  It's interesting that all of you are worried about messing with the genetic gene pool.   Shooting the upper crust with rut tags every year will probably do more damage to the herd, lol. 

Hunting is going to have to be limited.  I hate to see it, but I do more hunting with a camera these days anyways.   It does play right into the wolfhuggers though.  What is hunting but a way to cull off the extras and manage a population.   Well, we are in a hole right now in the methow.    I guess you can focus on the Entitat.  It hasn't been destroyed YET

[dvolmer]

I chuckle at how many people say they see huge two points.

I sort of agree with this statement.  They are out there but not as prevalent as it seems some think.  This state can not be compared with other states except maybe California and probably not even that.  We have way way way more people than all of the other states that have prevalent mule deer herds.  Going to a permit only system would be met with much screaming and yelling by hunters who now hunt every year sitting home and shopping with their wives during hunting seasons that they would have to sit out.  It would also cost the state in lost revenue and the only reason we even get to hunt at all in this state is because we are a necessary evil in the site of Liberals.  They deplore hunting and all it in tales but rely heavily on the revenue it produces for their much needed social programs. We also have a very very Liberal base in the west side that thinks of wolves and Coyotes as little furry balls of fun that are cute, cuddly, and deserve protection and that Mountain lions are little kitties that are being harassed by evil men.  Put all that together and combine it with a massive reduction in hunting areas that are going to private hunt clubs and leases and you have a recipe for disaster for the common guy that would like to go out and bag a buck here in Washington on public or private ground.  I would hate to be a WDFW biologist and try to balance this all out.

 Im not sure of the answer but I have been hunting in this state for the last 35 years plus.  I used to hunt up and around the foothills of the blues and around Washtucna and Hooper areas in my late teens and early 20's.  We would hunt like crazy and scower the area for miles in hope of finding a spike or 2 point buck (that's all we ever seemed to find).  Lots of years with no success.  When the three point min rule came out we were devastated and thought it was a terrible thing.  First year it was!  We watched small bucks that we used to shoot be off limits and it was frustrating.  But since then the deer hunting became incredibly better.  We shot more bucks and they were bigger than we ever had before.  So the three point rule in my opinion isn't perfect by no means but from my experience it is much better then any buck.  But it doesn't really matter much more to me because all of my hunting spots that I have hunted for years have had the old men that owned them pass away.  They were stewards of the land and were great guys that felt that everyone should have the opportunity to hunt and allowed access.  There farms have been taken over by greedy kids or sold to big corporations and everything is about the almighty dollar and they have all turned into hunting clubs or pay to hunt areas.  I just cant bring myself to pay $1200-$1500 to shoot a 3x3 or small 4x4.  So Montana and Wyoming have been a much better bang for my buck and it has been wonderful.  I still do hunt in Washington because I am lucky enough to know just someone that has an awesome ranch that lets me hunt.  If I ever loose this spot my Washington days are over.

[OutHouse]

So, based off some comments I've read I have to ask:

If the Methow Valley were to go draw only, or quotas, or some other cancellation of the general seasons, should that be done for both mule deer and whitetail?

I ask because I spend a lot of time up there and I don't see that whitetail numbers are down. Sure there was a couple really good years recently, but they seem to be doing the same as usual. In areas with good forage their numbers are high.

How would you define the Methow Valley?

Good question I am thinking GMU's 218, 231, and Perrygin Unit--not sure of the number on that. Maybe 242 should be included as well.

[WAcoueshunter]

I chuckle at how many people say they see huge two points.

I sort of agree with this statement.  They are out there but not as prevalent as it seems some think. 

Im not sure of the answer but I have been hunting in this state for the last 35 years plus.  We would hunt like crazy and scower the area for miles in hope of finding a spike or 2 point buck (that's all we ever seemed to find).  Lots of years with no success.  When the three point min rule came out we were devastated and thought it was a terrible thing.  First year it was!  We watched small bucks that we used to shoot be off limits and it was frustrating.  But since then the deer hunting became incredibly better.  We shot more bucks and they were bigger than we ever had before.  So the three point rule in my opinion isn't perfect by no means but from my experience it is much better then any buck. 

   It's been 30 years for me.  I went a LONG time in those early years just trying to put a one inch nubbin on the top of a buck.  I can remember trips where I'd see 50+ deer on a ranch we hunted in the Okanogan and couldn't find a horn to save my life.  It got WAY better after the 3 point rule went into effect.  I've hunted that same ranch on and off since the 3 point rule, and now there are bucks all over that place. 

[Mr Mykiss]

Shooting every single legal buck that we see hurts the populations.
Not having much cover and having a large cities worth of people move into hunting areas every season hurts the population.
People that know this know this...WA is a freakin joke when it comes to shooting anything over 130".
^^Yep you can shoot a 140" deer but it's gotta be worth the 7 days worth of extra effort that you put into it... or you could go somewhere else and shoot a nice one with less effort.
Oh man...sorry guys. I just got back from mule deer hunting in  I     DA           HO