16" barrel for a practical/hunting bolt 308?

[yakimanoob]

Hey folks!  So I'm on the hunt for a 308 bolt gun to use for hunting deer and elk (and hopefully sheep one day!), and I have a question about barrel length.  I'll lay some groundwork concepts:

1) I have no delusions about shooting at animals at ranges over about 400 yds.  I simply have no desire to buy a big magnum and invest the hundreds of hours of practice necessary to make long range hunting an ethical activity.  I'll get as close as I can, and if I can't get close enough I won't shoot.
2) I want a LIGHT rifle, for a lot of reasons, but mostly because I'll be carrying it many miles on the high buck hunt I plan on doing next year. 
3) My current plan is to buy a Tikka T3 lite and have it cut shorter and threaded for a muzzle break (so I can practice with my 7lb 308 without developing a flinch). 

Lighter and shorter the better, but I don't know how much I can push that concept before I lose enough velocity to degrade terminal performance at, say, 400 yards.  I'm thinking of having the smith cut it to either 18" or 16", and would love some thoughts and advice from folks who have used 16"-barreled 308s. 

I posted the same thing on the WA Guns forum, so if you're on both boards, sorry for the duplicate

Thanks in advance!

[Henrydog]

Why not buy a Weatherby (howa 1500) youth, they might call it a compact.  My son has one in 308.  Light, 16" barrel and drives tacks with 180 corelokts. I recall it was under $400

[Henrydog]

http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardr-synthetic-compact.html

Crap....I lied specs say a 20" barrel.  And the price is up 25% with Obama the worlds best gun saleman

[Bob33]

I can say from personal experience that shooting a rifle offhand that has a short, light barrel is difficult. I'd suggest not going shorter than 20", which still keeps the gun light and easy to handle.

[Fl0und3rz]

I am pleased with the weight of my Ruger All Weather and Remington Mountain rifles, both of which are 7# and change scoped, IIRC.

Ruger has some nice compact models as well, which may shave a pound, if it is really that important.

[EmeraldBullet]

I love my sig m716. It's about 9.3 LBs though empty, and I suggest you replace the trigger.

[carpsniperg2]

Save yourself money and a lot of steps. Buy a American predator in 308. I have one, it's threaded with a 18" barrel super light and very accurate

[Skillet]

I think campmeat has a great shooting short barrel 308 in his avatar, but I don't think it's a 7# setup.  Hopefully he'll jump in here.
That said, you might want to think about shaving weight elsewhere.  As per Bob's post, cutting a barrel down that much will upset the balance of that gun,  affecting velocity and increasing muzzle blast as well. Then if you add a muzzle break, you're adding back weight to fix a problem  caused by reducing weight...
I've packed in heavy rifles for the high hunt, and most recently took a T3 SS Lite up with me.  World of difference in how low your arms are hanging by the end of the day!  While of course less weight would have been better, the 22" factory barrel was not a hindrance and is not a place I would look to shave weight.
If recoil is the issue and you won't take a poke out beyond 400, look to a 7mm-08. Good elk/deer round and significantly reduced recoil, imho.

Or, 

[lamrith]

I know of someone selling a Savage Axis SR that might fit the bill nicely.  It is 20" but already threaded, 20Moa scope rail installed and trigger spring replaced.  Drop me a PM if interested and I will get you in contact with him, he was not asking much for it and I know they are a pretty light gun.

[theleo]

The balance of a lightweight bolt gun with that short of barrel stinks for me, I'd leave it at 20". I'd also recommend that instead of getting a 308 and putting a break on it, just buy a 7mm-08, 260 rem, or 6.5 Creedmoor. They have lighter recoil, will do everything you're looking for this rifle to do, and you won't have to put up with the noise.

[JDHasty]

Hey folks!  So I'm on the hunt for a 308 bolt gun to use for hunting deer and elk (and hopefully sheep one day!), and I have a question about barrel length.  I'll lay some groundwork concepts:

1) I have no delusions about shooting at animals at ranges over about 400 yds.  I simply have no desire to buy a big magnum and invest the hundreds of hours of practice necessary to make long range hunting an ethical activity.  I'll get as close as I can, and if I can't get close enough I won't shoot.
2) I want a LIGHT rifle, for a lot of reasons, but mostly because I'll be carrying it many miles on the high buck hunt I plan on doing next year. 
3) My current plan is to buy a Tikka T3 lite and have it cut shorter and threaded for a muzzle break (so I can practice with my 7lb 308 without developing a flinch). 

Lighter and shorter the better, but I don't know how much I can push that concept before I lose enough velocity to degrade terminal performance at, say, 400 yards.  I'm thinking of having the smith cut it to either 18" or 16", and would love some thoughts and advice from folks who have used 16"-barreled 308s. 

I posted the same thing on the WA Guns forum, so if you're on both boards, sorry for the duplicate

Thanks in advance!

Wow!

16 inch 308 barrel w/muzzle break.  I don't want to be trying to shoot at the next bench over when someone is touching that thing off.

[yakimanoob]

Thanks all!  It sounds like I'm living up to the "noob" in my username. 

I've been building up to this purchase for quite a while, as it's my present to myself for paying off student loans.  I had my sights set on the Ruger Am Predator for the longest time, until I got to thinking about safeties that lock the bolt.  I'd buy the Weatherby but I'm partial to shorter bolt throws (I own a Ruger American Rimfire in 22mag and LLLOOOOOOOVVVE it).  I may fall back to the american predator idea after all, but I'd rather have a bolt that locks -- and yes, I did accidentally open the bolt while stalking this season -- it's what got me thinking about it.  I'm also not a huge fan of the loud safety "click" of the American line.  I haven't gotten a Tikka in my hands yet (I obviously will do so before buying), but I've read the safety disengages quietly.  Anyone used both who can confirm that??

Anyway, it sounds like I need to stay away from 16" barrels and stick with 18" at minimum?  I handled the predator 308 in the store and really liked the balance of it. 

[yakimanoob]

Also re: 7mm-08:

I chose 308 for the cheap ammo availability, but have been considering the 7mm-08 too because of the reduced recoil and generally better ballistics of the longer 7mm bullets.  If I end up with that caliber, I'm thinking the new Hornady 150gr ELD-X will be my hunting round of choice. 

Anyway, I'm struggling with the marginally-better ballistics vs the fact I can get a 308 t3 for about $150 cheaper than a 7mm-08 t3, much less the cheaper practice ammo from the 308.

[carpsniperg2]

I don't know why you would think the 7mm-08 is 150.00 more then the 308 will run you?
I sell them both for the same price and they have the same msrp and map.

The ammo for the 7mm-08 and 308 with quality loads is about the same not more then a few bucks difference on a box.

The rugers do have a little more of a click to the safety but I have never had a animal get away because of it even coyotes. I have a 22-250 predator and 308. I love tikka as well and have lots of them and they will do you good as well but for what you are looking for the predator fits the bill other then you wanting a locking bolt.

[JLR]

If you're not considering hunting past 400yd, I'd suggest getting a 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor.  Less recoil, plenty of energy for the ranges, and with the Creedmoor you have great factory ammo available for relatively cheap.  Prime and Hornady stuff can usually be found for a little over a buck a piece and are match accurate.

[yakimanoob]

Carpsniperg2, I'm referencing pricing that I see on buds and gallery of guns.  If we're comparing t3x's, then yeah they're the same price.  But there are still plenty of 308 t3s floating around at clearance pricing and I can't find any 7mm-08s under $500 like I can find the 308s.  If you know where I can find a 7mm-08 for that cheap, I might just jump on it right now.

[theleo]

Also re: 7mm-08:

I chose 308 for the cheap ammo availability, but have been considering the 7mm-08 too because of the reduced recoil and generally better ballistics of the longer 7mm bullets.  If I end up with that caliber, I'm thinking the new Hornady 150gr ELD-X will be my hunting round of choice. 

Anyway, I'm struggling with the marginally-better ballistics vs the fact I can get a 308 t3 for about $150 cheaper than a 7mm-08 t3, much less the cheaper practice ammo from the 308.

I'll give it to you plain, you're over thinking this. If ballistics mattered that much you wouldn't be considering a 308. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine round, just not all that inspiring. I've killed elk with both a 308 and a 7mm-08 both in Remington model 7's (the same sort of rifle you're looking wanting) and quite honestly the only difference was the 308 kicked more (165's in the 308 and 140's in the 7mm-08). If you felt the need to go to a long range bullet that's fine but all you're likely to see is more meat damage on close shots. There's no need for one at the distances you're looking at and what you're looking to do with this rifle. The only time 308 will be significantly cheaper to shoot is if you're buying the cheap FMJ stuff that you'd never hunt with. They're virtually the same price once you look at Green Box ammo or better. Also, since you're looking at Tikkas you might as through the 270 win into the mix since you won't be saving any weight in a Tikka by using a short action cartridge vs. a long action cartridge like the 270 win or 30-06. Just pick a mild manner cartridge that you can shoot without a break and practice. 

[theleo]

Carpsniperg2, I'm referencing pricing that I see on buds and gallery of guns.  If we're comparing t3x's, then yeah they're the same price.  But there are still plenty of 308 t3s floating around at clearance pricing and I can't find any 7mm-08s under $500 like I can find the 308s.  If you know where I can find a 7mm-08 for that cheap, I might just jump on it right now.

If you'd put a break on the 308 and be fine shooting the 7mm-08 without one the price difference is null and void because you'll be paying the gunsmith all the money you saved (and then some) for installing the break.

[carpsniperg2]

Carpsniperg2, I'm referencing pricing that I see on buds and gallery of guns.  If we're comparing t3x's, then yeah they're the same price.  But there are still plenty of 308 t3s floating around at clearance pricing and I can't find any 7mm-08s under $500 like I can find the 308s.  If you know where I can find a 7mm-08 for that cheap, I might just jump on it right now.

I see. You are looking at clearance gun prices and since you cant find the 7mm-08 on clearance that is why you are saying 150.00 in difference.

My wholesalers are all switched to the t3x. I can get you the t3x in either cartridge for 585.00 plus tax

[carpsniperg2]

Oh and I can get ya the predator for 395.00 plus tax.

[superdown]

Save yourself money and a lot of steps. Buy a American predator in 308. I have one, it's threaded with a 18" barrel super light and very accurate

                     


I have one also and i really like it it also has a little bit of a heavy barrel so you shot a few more rounds down range without the barrel heating up as quickly as other rifles and at 18" it splits the difference between the 16" and 20" barrels.

[jay.sharkbait]

18" seems to be a good trade off for velocity vs length.

308/7.62 is starting to get long in the toof though and there are far better choices out there.

[huntnphool]

 My kids use Ruger Hawkeye Compacts in 7mm-08 and can shoot lights out with them under 300 yards. They have 16.5" barrels, lighter weight than full size and still shoot real well.

[Stein]

Cutting a 20" barrel to 18" and then installing a brake seems like an exercise in money spending.

Buy a youth 20" and you can have sub MOA out of the box for $400.

In my experience, mountain rifles get banged up and scratched, so I would be looking for utility over looks.

[fly-by]

If you get a stock that fits well,  a .308 should not beat you up to the point of inducing a flinch or needing to add a brake. 

I also have a Ruger American Predator in .308.  It's very accurate but weight savings is a function of the cheap plastic stock, not the barrel, which is more of a medium profile.  It's a little nose heavy and not what I consider a great mountain rifle

The 16.5"  Ruger Hawkeye compact with an adult stock would be a good choice.  Most youth models have a short length of pull and won't help with proper fit.

My featherweight (5.5lbs bare) .308 is a mid 60's Remington 600 set up scout style.  18.5" pencil barrel with the funky rib.  Very accurate little rifle and a joy to carry.

[huntnphool]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/BrowseItems2.aspx?Keywords=Ruger+Hawkeye+compact&Cats=0

[JDHasty]

Just buy a Weatheby Vanguard (Howa) in 7mm-08 and put a Leupold 4x or VX1 3-9 on it and go hunting.  By the time you actually are competent to make an "informed decision" you will be in position to advise other newbys. 

You will have a rifle and scope that will "get er' done" every time it has been tried and will be able to say:   If you hunt under these circumstances...  this may be a better choice. 

[yorketransport]

You'd do fine with a 16" barreled 308. You'd end up with the ballistics of a 300 Savage, and that's not bad at all. The trick is to get the balance right on a short barreled rifle.

It's not a 308, but I've fallen in love with my little CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel. It's not a 400 yard elk gun but it's certainly capable of killing elk at the appropriate range. That's a discussion for another thread, from a while back, which ended very poorly.

[JDHasty]

You'd do fine with a 16" barreled 308. You'd end up with the ballistics of a 300 Savage, and that's not bad at all. The trick is to get the balance right on a short barreled rifle.

It's not a 308, but I've fallen in love with my little CZ 527 in 6.5 Grendel. It's not a 400 yard elk gun but it's certainly capable of killing elk at the appropriate range. That's a discussion for another thread, from a while back, which ended very poorly.

I was on the "it's not a 400 yard elk gun" side of that discussion, but I agree 100% with what you have said here. 

What I would steer the OP toward if it were up to me would be a compact Howa based rifle in 7mm-08 because it is isn't going to be too heavy in the woods and it will still be comfortable off the bench for practice shooting.  And it is affordable and that will let him actually gain a lot of familiarity with what he likes/dislikes in a rifle before going in any direction with a customized job... just based on what he has read and what others have told him he wants in a custom hunting rifle.  He may want to shoot it a bit and then decide if he wants to try a shorter barrel and he will have something to compare it to. 

Now, this is based on my familiarity with the Howa based rifles out there, which I have none with the Tika, but that is probably just as good a choice.