Got drawn for a lion tag.

[Monsterbull11]

I posted a "quick question" about a month ago wondering about putting in for a Washington nuisance lion permit. Well, i had a message left on my phone today telling me that I'd been drawn for one. I'm going to call Monday and get the particulars but the way the message went was that I had to be a "dog hunter". Now my question is, do any of you guys know for sure if I need to be the dog owner? If so, I'll call and take my name out.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Yes.  You need to be a hound owner to apply.

[Monsterbull11]

Well, that would have been good information to have on the e-mail asking if I wanted to apply.
I figured that might be the case but I don't generally draw stuff like this, so I didn't worry about it.

     Thanks for the info.

[boneaddict]

2nd bullet point in email....

To be eligible for a cougar management removal permit (permit), the participant must be a Washington resident dog hunter (i.e., owns and hunts with dogs capable of detecting, tracking, and treeing a cougar) . The permit holder must use dogs while participating in a cougar management removal.

[HUNTINCOUPLE]

Before you pull your name out you must know a hound owner maybe in the Burnett area?? A good friend with hounds will be so happy to be your friend.

[highside74]

You don't have to be the owner of the dogs. You just have to have dogs available to you for the hunt. There will be plenty of guys and most likely alot from this forum that will want to run their dogs for you. good luck on your hunt.

[WAcoyotehunter]

You don't have to be the owner of the dogs. You just have to have dogs available to you for the hunt. There will be plenty of guys and most likely alot from this forum that will want to run their dogs for you. good luck on your hunt.

That's false. It says clearly that you are to be a hound hunter that owns and hunts with dogs.  This is the reason the pilot program got scrapped, because everyone in the state applied and when a person got a tag that didn't have dogs (most of the tags...) They were hiring outfitters and trying to make it something that it was not designed for.  This is a damage hunt designed to give hound owners an opportunity to use their dogs. 

[boneaddict]

Correct.

[jackelope]

2nd bullet point in email....

To be eligible for a cougar management removal permit (permit), the participant must be a Washington resident dog hunter (i.e., owns and hunts with dogs capable of detecting, tracking, and treeing a cougar) . The permit holder must use dogs while participating in a cougar management removal.

That's a copy and paste of the email. Lines 2-3 sum it up.

[highside74]

.i.e means for example. It does not say anywhere you have to use your own dogs. I can be a dog hunter with friends and not own a single dog.

In our state the way the regs are written... if it isn't in there then it's not against the rules. Kinda backwards but that's how they do it.

It says at the end the permit holder must use dogs. It does not say the permit holder must use his own dogs.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I.e. OWNS AND HUNTS WITH DOGS.....
Are you arguing that everyone should be able to apply for the damage hunts, even if they don't have dogs?

That was the problem with the pilot program too... People with tags and no dogs, or access to them, drawing tags and screwing the hound handlers that had dogs and couldn't pull a tag.

[highside74]

That is why it says permit holder must use dogs. To stop people from applying that don't have access to dogs.

The i.e. is an example. It is not part of the reg it's an aside to the reg. If you take that line out because it is just one example of which there could be several. Like, if they didn't want you using someone else's dogs they would have said you must use your own dogs. Then the paragraph states you must be a dog hunter and you must use dogs. That is what it says. Nothing else.

We can agree to disagree. But I know people with dogs so I will put in for this hunt.

[JimmyHoffa]

I.e. OWNS AND HUNTS WITH DOGS.....
Are you arguing that everyone should be able to apply for the damage hunts, even if they don't have dogs?

That was the problem with the pilot program too... People with tags and no dogs, or access to them, drawing tags and screwing the hound handlers that had dogs and couldn't pull a tag.

Knew one person that drew under the old pilot program.  Thought that training a Labrador a month before the hunt started would meet the hunts with dogs requirement.   

[trophyhunt]

I don't see why the put the "must own dogs" restriction on the hunt, the point is to reduce cat numbers isn't it?  Let people apply who want to hunt cats with dogs.  The guys with hunting dogs will certainly get to run their dogs if anyone could apply.

[jackelope]

Personally, out of respect for the guys who put tons of money and time into training their dogs year round, I'd let the actual houndhunters apply and draw. Why would a guy apply and draw and then hope to find a hound guy who will take them to hunt? To me it's like drawing a Blues elk permit after waiting 15-20 years and then not hunting. You could have just left that permit for a guy who would actually hunt.