Does steel case ammo hurt AR's?????

[Dan-o]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to AR's, but between my kids and I we now have 5.......   Tons of fun burning up ammo.

QUESTION:    I see all of this cheap steel cased ammo and I wonder if it's bad for ARs.   Do the steel case trash the bore/throat?   Is there a reason not to buy it for cheap plinking ammo?

Thanks,

Dan

[Bean Counter]

If you're going to do cheap plinking in one dedicated gun I think you'll be fine. I wouldn't do it through your home defense / zombie apocalypse gun. If you shoot a lot, you'll likely save enough money that it will be worth whatever maleffects the steel brings. I'd have no problem running the polymer coated steel rounds through an AK as they were designed for that kind of dogpoo. I wouldn't run it through an AR, especially a nice one, myself. You'll get more buildup in the chamber and some occasional failure to extract problems. IIRC its because the steel doesn't form as good of a seal in the chamber as does a brass case, and with some of the resultant blowback robs the BCG of enough energy to properly extract.  Clean it good especially if you're going to shoot brass in the same gun later.

[Dan-o]

Thanks, Bean!

[300rum]

There is a rather long article somewhere on the internets where steel ammo was compared to Federal (If I remember correctly).  The Steel bullet wore at a much higher rate and the barrel with the Federal ammo stayed accurate much longer.

Gun problems often come back to a couple of things, bad ammo or bad mags.  Don't go cheap with either.   

[BULLBLASTER]

There is a rather long article somewhere on the internets where steel ammo was compared to Federal (If I remember correctly).  The Steel bullet wore at a much higher rate and the barrel with the Federal ammo stayed accurate much longer.

Gun problems often come back to a couple of things, bad ammo or bad mags.  Don't go cheap with either.   

If that's the same article I remember it also showed that in the long run it was cheaper to shoot the cheap steel cased ammo and replace the barrel a couple times.

Me personally I have one ar and shoot whatever I have through it. It's nothing fancy and barrels are cheap.   

Now if I had a match gun or something I plan for extreme accuracy I would think differently

[pianoman9701]

I've shot both through my AR10. I won't be shooting a lot of steel ammo but I have some stockpiled if the need arises for it. It's good to have this information, though. Unfortunately, good ammo for my rifle is $1+ per shot (6.5 Grendel). I also thoroughly clean the bolt carrier group, action, and barrel when I get done each time I shoot it, steel or otherwise. So far, I've noticed no buildup at all. 

[Special T]

The article was a endurance test on ammo. 4 new DPMS rifles were purchased 20k rnds to be run through  each. 2 brands of brass 2 of steel. At 7k one of the steel case guns had a catastrophic failure so it couldn't finish the test. The other steel case wore out the barrel  in less than 10k rnds. I think they were cleaned and made some measurements to determine wear.
Imo an AK is the only weapon I'd run steel through. They don't seem to care.

[gemihur]

my experience is that a considerable lacquer build-up was found from use of steel cases, eventually leading to restricted feed problems and incomplete bolt closure issues.
cleanliness is next to godliness
                               John Wesley

[Jburke]

I've shot both through my AR10. I won't be shooting a lot of steel ammo but I have some stockpiled if the need arises for it. It's good to have this information, though. Unfortunately, good ammo for my rifle is $1+ per shot (6.5 Grendel). I also thoroughly clean the bolt carrier group, action, and barrel when I get done each time I shoot it, steel or otherwise. So far, I've noticed no buildup at all. 

This is the EXACT reason I sold my Grendel AR and built a bolt action Grendel instead.  Way too expensive to just blow through ammo at more than $1 per round.
I've used steel ammo in AR's before with no problems though.  However if looking for accuracy you won't find anything mind blowing in steel cased ammo probably.  Just as plinking ammo I wouldn't hesitate to use it again though.

[dscubame]

I had a thought.  How about a dedicated barrel to shoot steel when just having fun with it.

[Dan-o]

I had a thought.  How about a dedicated barrel to shoot steel when just having fun with it.

I've been thinking about that.

I do love to make noise with the thing, and a dedicated barrel might make a ton of sense for just screwing around.

[SGTDuffman]

Brass is significantly better, though it's probably a wash on price between the two. The brass will take longer to burn out your barrel, but for what you save on ammo, you could buy a new barrel.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

[Special T]

The new zinc  coated steel would work much better that that azure stuff. The laqure will turn your AR into a jam o matic as soon as it get hot.

I've heard good things about the zinc covered steel and I wonder how the zinc would affect long-term wear, does it provide extra lubricity, to negate the hardness of the steel.

[Alchase]

Here is a link to a discusion on AR15 forum

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/703098_Tula_steel_cased__223_any_good__Also_will_it_harm_my_rifle_.html


Molon's post are pact with details on tons of stuff

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237

[BULLBLASTER]

I am thinking that bullet jacket material has more affect on barrel life and wear than the cartridge case. Lots of the steel faded ammo uses bullet jackets with steel in them.

I still really don't care what I feed my ar... as long as it shoots. I also don't shoot it a ton. Maybe 1-2 times a year.

[jay.sharkbait]

I would avoid the ammunition with bi metal jackets.

I think people need to put it into perspective.

Are you going to shoot 10,000 rounds through your rifle? I've built comp guns for local guys that have over 10k and accuracy is just starting to suffer. These rifles were 1/2 MOA rifles that now shoot little over MOA. Rifles are shooting brass cased 55 gr copper jacketed bullets with some 77's thrown in. Powder is TAC.

Now, what's your typical range session like? And how many times a year do you shoot? 

Barrels cost 100.00-300.00, maybe more for a super premium fanboy driven and marketed barrel. These uber expensive barrels with the goofy fluting don't shoot any better than a 200.00 plain Jane barrel.

Where is the trade off? That's up to you, but I don't think that shooting a couple hundred rounds a year is going to cause any issues and if you are able to shoot more due to cost that's good.

[pianoman9701]

I had a thought.  How about a dedicated barrel to shoot steel when just having fun with it.

...or dedicated upper so you don't have to mess with the gas tube, grips, rails, etc. But as Jay was saying, if you're not putting 10K rounds through it, it's not a huge concern.

[Special T]

The article on ar15 that did a wolf accuracy comparison  shows they shoot horrible. 4" groups at 100yards. Not sure the savings is worth anything.

[jay.sharkbait]

The article on ar15 that did a wolf accuracy comparison  shows they shoot horrible. 4" groups at 100yards. Not sure the savings is worth anything.

I take everything on Arfcom with a grain of salt.

That said every rifle is different and I've had much better results  with comblock ammunition.

[Alchase]

The article on ar15 that did a wolf accuracy comparison  shows they shoot horrible. 4" groups at 100yards. Not sure the savings is worth anything.

I take everything on Arfcom with a grain of salt.

That said every rifle is different and I've had much better results  with comblock ammunition.

Jay, have you read Molon's threads on AR15?

He puts out a ton of info.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/505915_.html

[BULLBLASTER]

Keep in mind that not everybody is out after extreme precision with their ar.
I see far more ars at the range that shoot to shoot. Maybe a paper target at 50-70 yards or clay pigeons at that range and just lots of shooting. 

[T-Dozzer]

There is a rather long article somewhere on the internets where steel ammo was compared to Federal (If I remember correctly).  The Steel bullet wore at a much higher rate and the barrel with the Federal ammo stayed accurate much longer.

Gun problems often come back to a couple of things, bad ammo or bad mags.  Don't go cheap with either.   

Was this the same article that broke down the cost saving of steel to the cost of a new barrel? Sounds like it's not worth it.