Barrel question?

[lord grizzly]

How'd they do?

[Bill W]

I'd like to see how they came up with a 1/2 MOA at 1K yards guarantee.   Do they have a 1K tunnel to remove the variables so it mainly the rifle that gets tested.

[jay.sharkbait]

How'd they do?

It wasn't a fair comparison. The 2010 was better, but I think that was the rifle fitting me better and that I had more time shooting the 2010.

[Karl Blanchard]

Tagging.  I'm running a Hells Canyon Armory Carbon this year and it's pretty impressive so far.  Had to rush to get her up and running for the season but so far it has been light, extremely accurate, and a pleasure to shoot.

[7mmstalker]

I'm not convinced. There are rifles out there shooting great with these barrels, but I'll say that the credit should go to the gunsmith as much as the barrel.

I've seen the different manufacturing processes and every one has the fibers going in the wrong direction and too resin rich. Also barrel steel expands and contracts at a much different rate.

Good points.
The care and precision of the chambering cut and barrel fitting to the action have a big impact on accuracy.
Anybody who has auto mechanical repair experience knows that materials of different density like aluminum/steel have expansion rates that change the dimensions measurably. I am sure that  the extreme heat and pressure of a rifle barrel in field shooting (versus slow fire bench shooting) would really tweak a composite barrel. For a barbeque gun or target rifle, the composite barrel sounds cool, with a capital C!
We probably won't see carbon wrapped barrels taking over competition match rifles, the name of the game is consistency, and a barrel of stable material is more predictable than a lighter barrel.

[MtnMuley]

I don't think that any will argue that from a competition standpoint on carbon barrels.  As for 15 miles in on a backcountry hunt, that's a different story. For me it sure is at least.

[Reidus]

What are the thermal expansion coefficients of carbon? Of steel?    They're way different!

So glue them together and heat and cool them? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Carbon fiber is also an insulator. Proof claims they have developed a resin that transfers heat 150% better than copper. So how come they dont feel cold when you touch the barrel?
"I shot a few times and the barrel still felt cool to the touch"  well ya cuz it trapped the heat inside and you'll burn out your throat twice as fast. How cold or hot something feels is directly proportional to how well it tranfers heat. If they do transfer heat better than copper it should feel a heck of a lot colder than copper pipe on a cold morning. Heat transfer with carbon is also different with the fiber vs crosswise to the fiber.

I think you could build a more accurate with a steel barrel vs a carbon barrel with both being the same weight but most people wont notice the difference.  So it really just comes down to the cool factor.

[lord grizzly]

Again, have you shot many of them?

[MtnMuley]

I think you could build a more accurate with a steel barrel vs a carbon barrel with both being the same weight but most people wont notice the difference.  So it really just comes down to the cool factor.

They're not going to be the same weight though. That's the problem and reason I chose carbon wrapped. Nothing to do with a "cool factor", but everything to do with having a comfortable rifle to pack all fall.

[MichaelJ]

Karl just turned me onto this thread 

I've been doing R&D on my carbon barrels with a composites engineer for close to 3 years now.  Whoever said that manufacturing processes of modern carbon barrels have the wrong fiber orientation and too resin rich is DEAD ON!

My barrels have a Rock Creek 5R Cut Rifled liner that doesn't get any thinner than .650 at the muzzle and weight about on par with a #3 sporter contour +/- 4 oz.

As far as the technology goes, I'll refrain from speaking of others and focus on my own barrels.  First up is fiber orientation.  Every layer of composite (notice i didn't say Carbon!) material on my barrel is a continuous piece from tennon to crown.  Each barrel as a single seam running the length of the barrel.  We also do everything we can with our prep work to ensure that the barrel steel doesn't slip or contract/expand at vastly different rates than the composites material.  Next come resin ratios... most carbon barrels have around a 65:35 Resin to Fiber ratio.  Resin is a great insulator and traps heat.  My barrels are in the 25:75 resin/fiber ratio.

We focus on two things with my barrels.  Rigidity (comes from better fiber orientation), and harmonics.  When you think of a graphine/carbon fiber fishing rod, it transfer vibrations incredibly well....  Thats the opposite effect you want with a barrel.  You want harmonic dampening not amplification/transfer.  Thus we don't use 100% carbon fiber.

Our barrels are also cured with no "Induced stress".  A very well known carbon barrel manufacturer at one point in time (I believe they still continue this practice) "caps" their barrel with a stainless barrel cap.  And they do it while inducing tension into the barrel. Engineering principles states that material under tension is more rigid.  But what happens to that tension when barrels heat up and the materials expand at different rates?  It creates an unpredictable reaction.

As far as carbon trapping heat.... that's a myth.  Formula 1 cars use CF brake rotors because it dissipates heat so much better than steel.  It's the resin ratio that is key!  My barrels kick off so much heat you get a mirage after 7-10 shots and that carbon will be hotter to the touch than the stainless barrel tennon around the chamber.  That's the biggest issue for me and using them in matches.  High volume shot strings and mirage is a bad combination.

I quit chasing the weight savings on carbon barrels awhile ago.  I could go thinner on contours without issue, but the fact of the matter is with a 7 lb base rifle weight, I can change my grip pressure and EASILY throw a round 1/2MOA sideways one direction or another.  The rifle itself is extremely accurate, accuracy is not a function of weight....  but light weight rifles are harder to shoot more accurately as a shooter.  If you want to bang animals at 750 and in, you're probably fine with a sub 9 lb well built hunting rifle.  Stretching it further than that and you better be on your A game!  I prefer a 9.5-10.5 lb gun for long range work.  Its worth the extra weight.... you pack 6+ lbs of spotter/tripod up the mountain to up your hunting ability, that extra 1-2 lbs for the added killing ability is well worth it.

Most of my carbon long range rifles end up 7-7.5 lbs base rifle weight with a muzzle brake and 26" barrel.

And building a steel barreled "long range" rifle that weights in at that 7 lb mark sucks!  Who likes to spend $3k+ on a gun that has a barrel that opens up from .5 MOA to 1.5 MOA after 6-7 shots?  If you're shooting long range, you need to be shooting a lot, and waiting 15-20 minutes for a sporter contoured barrel to cool down after a few shots is retarded...  I won't do it lol

Hope this helps some of you! 

Mike

[Karl Blanchard]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement   

[lord grizzly]

Hells canyon, have you started selling your barrels yet or are you still just doing full builds?

[MichaelJ]

Hells canyon, have you started selling your barrels yet or are you still just doing full builds?

I really hate to sell them as blanks but I believe that time will be here in 2017. 

Mike

[lord grizzly]

Guess I'll stay tuned. May have to pick one up for the next build

[h20hunter]

Mine is a trued up rem 700 action and it shoots in the .3 and I haven't even really dove into any serious load developement 

That's a sexy shooter for sure!