Change the 24 caliber min in washington(added poll please vote)

[hunter399]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

[JDHasty]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

We have had admissions of such posted right here on Hunting-Washington.  Here is a sample: 

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,188644.75.html

Wouldn't want the "Ethical" club (that would be JDHasty, who had long since retired for the evening) to show up with their poster child.

My opinion is. Two is one, one is none. A AR would be perfectly suited for shooting a Elk into the ground. This "One shot, one kill" is stupid movie crap! Even the hot rod, evil *censored*s that lurk in the dark currently so we can enjoy our freedom know better to pull the trigger more than once. I don't care if I pop a Elk 5 times as fast as I can pull the trigger or work the bolt.

Some clowns refer to it as "Dumping Mags" those usually have never had a reason to dump a mag. So don't understand the mag dump thing isn't hunting related and very seldom used in its other text.

5 rounds from a AR is faster than some shmuck can say U-N E-T-H-I-C-A-L!

Deads,dead. I can care less if he has one hole or five through the ribs, who cares. It hits the BBQ just the same.

Sure Bang-Flops are cool! With on a moving running shot in the thick timber, I like to stick it to them.


*****************************

And the guy who posted this was not alone.  He had plenty of like minded supporters.  Once they sobered up they deleted the posts, but that was hours after I had already archived them for posterity. 

[jay.sharkbait]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

I agree 100%

I am very pro AR15 and think it's a fantastic platform for youth and disabled hunters.

Huntwa has a few handwringing fart dust negative Nancy's who hate modern sporting rifles. They like to portray anyone who hunts with an AR style rifle in a negative light and would sell out another hunters 2nd amendment rights at the drop of the hat.

[Dan-o]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

I agree 100%

I am very pro AR15 and think it's a fantastic platform for youth and disabled hunters.

Huntwa has a few handwringing fart dust negative Nancy's who hate modern sporting rifles. They like to portray anyone who hunts with an AR style rifle in a negative light and would sell out another hunters 2nd amendment rights at the drop of the hat.

I love ARs.  my sons and I all have them, and they are a blast.    But I wouldn't vote to make 223 legal for big game.   Just my personal view that 243 is a good minimum.

But I can certainly appreciate the opposite view.   I won't even thnk any less of any of you.   Just an honest difference of opinion.

Good night and happy hunting.

[yorketransport]

We have had admissions of such posted right here on Hunting-Washington.  Here is a sample: 

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,188644.75.html

Wouldn't want the "Ethical" club (that would be JDHasty, who had long since retired for the evening) to show up with their poster child.

My opinion is. Two is one, one is none. A AR would be perfectly suited for shooting a Elk into the ground. This "One shot, one kill" is stupid movie crap! Even the hot rod, evil *censored*s that lurk in the dark currently so we can enjoy our freedom know better to pull the trigger more than once. I don't care if I pop a Elk 5 times as fast as I can pull the trigger or work the bolt.

Some clowns refer to it as "Dumping Mags" those usually have never had a reason to dump a mag. So don't understand the mag dump thing isn't hunting related and very seldom used in its other text.

5 rounds from a AR is faster than some shmuck can say U-N E-T-H-I-C-A-L!

Deads,dead. I can care less if he has one hole or five through the ribs, who cares. It hits the BBQ just the same.

Sure Bang-Flops are cool! With on a moving running shot in the thick timber, I like to stick it to them.


*****************************

And the guy who posted this was not alone.  He had plenty of like minded supporters.  Once they sobered up they deleted the posts, but that was hours after I had already archived them for posterity.

That's a little out of context. If I'm not mistaken, most PHs advise to shoot until the animal is on the ground and I tend to agree with that mentality regardless of weapon or cartridge. The discussion here isn't about a platform though, just bore diameter. I'm not a big fan of a centerfire 22 for big game but I'd never say that it won't work. There are better options in every platform than a 22 cal. If you're an AR guy, there are plenty of options over 24 caliber. If you're a bolt gun lover and need a low recoil round there are still great options like the 6.5 Grendel available in reasonably priced factory guns with excellent factory ammo available.

Is a 223 capable? Sure. Is it ideal? Usually not. But don't judge a chambering based on the weapon and don't judge the weapon based on the chambering. There are bad shots made with every type of equipment and equipment restrictions will never change that.

[JDHasty]

Shoot, we have .17 and 20 calibers now.  Why not legalize those.  Also I read a while ago where someone was playing with a .14 caliber wildcat, legalize those too.

Why do we want to give a ribbon to every dog in the parade?   Dogs don't have feelings and don't care if they get ribbons.   .243 caliber should be the minimum for responsible deer hunting.  Key word "responsible".

Back when the 17's came out a guy shot a polar bear with a .17.  He had to hit the bear in the ear hole to kill it.   Based on that shouldn't 17's be legalized for bears?

I actually have acquaintance with one of the guys who were involved in that "adventure."  Paul Marquert of A&M Rifle Co out of Prescott AZ was involved with Vern O'Brein out of Las Vegas in the experimentation that was going on.  Paul Marquert was active in bench rest, he used to market the Marquert Neck Turning Tool and I talked to him once about my H&R Ultra Wildcat 17.  It was his opinion that things spun out of control with people trying to prove who could take the largest game with the least weapon instead of using "something appropriate to the job at hand."

To read about the adventures one gets the notion that they always had someone backing them up, but that claim was a bit exaggerated and the impression I got is he was not real pleased about people thinking that the 17 always or usually killed like lightning.  It had a high failure rate, if dropping an animal with one shot is the standard success is to be measured by.   

I use my Ultra Wildcat to shoot chucks & predators and in that it has been a smashing success.  I am on my third factory barrel (Douglas Ultra Rifled) and only have one spare left. 

I don't know how the conversation got directed toward shooting big game with a 17, I have never been interested.  I think it may have went that way because that is what all of the hooplah and most of the horse crap published focused on and he may have brought that up as a cautionary note because of my enthusiasm about how well it would  punch a coyote's ticket.

This is one of the guys who was intimately familiar with the use of a 17 on big game and I came away with the inclination that he was not a fan.   

     

[JDHasty]

We have had admissions of such posted right here on Hunting-Washington.  Here is a sample: 

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,188644.75.html

Wouldn't want the "Ethical" club (that would be JDHasty, who had long since retired for the evening) to show up with their poster child.

My opinion is. Two is one, one is none. A AR would be perfectly suited for shooting a Elk into the ground. This "One shot, one kill" is stupid movie crap! Even the hot rod, evil *censored*s that lurk in the dark currently so we can enjoy our freedom know better to pull the trigger more than once. I don't care if I pop a Elk 5 times as fast as I can pull the trigger or work the bolt.

Some clowns refer to it as "Dumping Mags" those usually have never had a reason to dump a mag. So don't understand the mag dump thing isn't hunting related and very seldom used in its other text.

5 rounds from a AR is faster than some shmuck can say U-N E-T-H-I-C-A-L!

Deads,dead. I can care less if he has one hole or five through the ribs, who cares. It hits the BBQ just the same.

Sure Bang-Flops are cool! With on a moving running shot in the thick timber, I like to stick it to them.


*****************************

And the guy who posted this was not alone.  He had plenty of like minded supporters.  Once they sobered up they deleted the posts, but that was hours after I had already archived them for posterity.

That's a little out of context. If I'm not mistaken, most PHs advise to shoot until the animal is on the ground and I tend to agree with that mentality regardless of weapon or cartridge. The discussion here isn't about a platform though, just bore diameter. I'm not a big fan of a centerfire 22 for big game but I'd never say that it won't work. There are better options in every platform than a 22 cal. If you're an AR guy, there are plenty of options over 24 caliber. If you're a bolt gun lover and need a low recoil round there are still great options like the 6.5 Grendel available in reasonably priced factory guns with excellent factory ammo available.

Is a 223 capable? Sure. Is it ideal? Usually not. But don't judge a chambering based on the weapon and don't judge the weapon based on the chambering. There are bad shots made with every type of equipment and equipment restrictions will never change that.

To put it into context the discussion began on a thread in which someone was looking for advice re: Using an AR 15 based platform for big game hunting by a novice hunter and photos of an elk killed at 411 yards and a deer killed way out past that range was posted therein.  Suggesting to me that the person posting was advocating for the position:  that if a person chose such and such cartridge that this was a logical expectation. 

I started a separate thread in which the discussion was about the ethics of advocating shooting at elk at such range was ethical and there were participants claiming that one shot kills were to be expected, under field conditions - in the wind etc. 

The opposing side claimed skepticism prior to retiring for the evening, but the conversation continued long into the night.  As that conversation developed it got rather animated and without anyone there to provide a voice of opposition to directing a barrage of projectiles in the direction of a big game animal, individuals involved in that conversation were free to discuss doing so unimpeded.

The topic of Volley fire came up in this thread without any assistance on my part and I just provided documentation that it is not unreasonable to be concerned about that dynamic rearing it's ugly head.   

I am not going to point any fingers at anyone who has not self reported, but I am also not going to let this concern be discounted as fantasy.   And to be quite honest, I am concerned about this becoming epidemic if the only thing standing between every yahoo with an AR 15 is the cost of a hunting license. 

Today that is not an option because the cost of admission leaves every Tom, Dick and Harry who walked into Walmart or Dicks and left with an AR 15 not able to purchase a big game transport tag and "go hunting" standing on the sidelines.

I'm all about expanding opportunities, but anyone who has any knowledge of me has also some familiarity with my opposition to those who show up to shoot rock chucks on a smaller property, with neighbors, with a 10/22 and then they start "dumping magazines," to use the phrase that seems to convey what I object to. 

That is also perfectly legal, and a guy can hunt chucks with a 10/22 and do so in a manner that does not endanger any future access on that property, but for whatever reason, they seem incapable of not losing their damn mind and emptying every round in their magazine at a chuck, even though they were counseled that it simply will not be tolerated. 

It will not be tolerated by neighbors who have no concern what so ever about a single shot, taken every minute or so, or a follow up shot taken a second later.  But once it starts to sound like the Grand Finale at a Fourth of July fireworks show next door, they are concerned - and rightfully so.  And so should anyone who gives a tinkers damn about the rockchuck they are shooting at.  If I shoot at a chuck, I want him dead.  I don't want him walking around with a leg shattered or a "lucky" bullet in the gut that leaves him to suffer for two weeks.

If I did not see this proposed change opening the flood gates to the same dynamic taking place during deer season,  I would have no objection.  But even those who claim that I have nothing to worry about in that regard have validated my concern that: 

"Two is one, one is none. A AR would be perfectly suited for shooting a Elk into the ground. This "One shot, one kill" is stupid movie crap! Even the hot rod, evil *censored*s that lurk in the dark currently so we can enjoy our freedom know better to pull the trigger more than once. I don't care if I pop a Elk 5 times as fast as I can pull the trigger or work the bolt." 

will become even more accepted as legitimate. 

 

[Bango skank]

Shoot, we have .17 and 20 calibers now.  Why not legalize those.  Also I read a while ago where someone was playing with a .14 caliber wildcat, legalize those too.

Why do we want to give a ribbon to every dog in the parade?   Dogs don't have feelings and don't care if they get ribbons.   .243 caliber should be the minimum for responsible deer hunting.  Key word "responsible".

Back when the 17's came out a guy shot a polar bear with a .17.  He had to hit the bear in the ear hole to kill it.   Based on that shouldn't 17's be legalized for bears?

I actually have acquaintance with one of the guys who were involved in that "adventure."  Paul Marquert of A&M Rifle Co out of Prescott AZ was involved with Vern O'Brein out of Las Vegas in the experimentation that was going on.  Paul Marquert was active in bench rest, he used to market the Marquert Neck Turning Tool and I talked to him once about my H&R Ultra Wildcat 17.  It was his opinion that things spun out of control with people trying to prove who could take the largest game with the least weapon instead of using "something appropriate to the job at hand."

To read about the adventures one gets the notion that they always had someone backing them up, but that claim was a bit exaggerated and the impression I got is he was not real pleased about people thinking that the 17 always or usually killed like lightning.  It had a high failure rate, if dropping an animal with one shot is the standard success is to be measured by.   

I use my Ultra Wildcat to shoot chucks & predators and in that it has been a smashing success.  I am on my third factory barrel (Douglas Ultra Rifled) and only have one spare left. 

I don't know how the conversation got directed toward shooting big game with a 17, I have never been interested.  I think it may have went that way because that is what all of the hooplah and most of the horse crap published focused on and he may have brought that up as a cautionary note because of my enthusiasm about how well it would  punch a coyote's ticket.

This is one of the guys who was intimately familiar with the use of a 17 on big game and I came away with the inclination that he was not a fan.   

   

No .17 on big game?  But blah blah blah shot placement, blah blah blah good judgement, blah blah blah my grandpa, blah blah blah other states

[Bango skank]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

I agree 100%

I am very pro AR15 and think it's a fantastic platform for youth and disabled hunters.

Huntwa has a few handwringing fart dust negative Nancy's who hate modern sporting rifles. They like to portray anyone who hunts with an AR style rifle in a negative light and would sell out another hunters 2nd amendment rights at the drop of the hat.

I have an ar too.  Im not done with it, but when i am its going to be a dedicated night time coyote gun.  But i dont see any benefit to hunting big game with one other than being able to "spray and pray."  But im not just against .223 because i know a ton of idiots would fling lead at deer elk and bear with ars.  I just flat out dont think its a reasonable deer caliber for most people, and dont even want bolt action .223 legal.  Can it kill a deer?  Sure, but its a very marginal caliber for that purpose.  Better to step it up a notch.  I dont think requiring somebody to use a 6mm to hunt big game is asking too much.

[Bango skank]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

I agree 100%

I am very pro AR15 and think it's a fantastic platform for youth and disabled hunters.

Huntwa has a few handwringing fart dust negative Nancy's who hate modern sporting rifles. They like to portray anyone who hunts with an AR style rifle in a negative light and would sell out another hunters 2nd amendment rights at the drop of the hat.

I have an ar too.  Im not done with it, but when i am its going to be a dedicated night time coyote gun.  But i dont see any benefit to hunting big game with one other than being able to "spray and pray."  But im not just against .223 because i know a ton of idiots would fling lead at deer elk and bear with ars.  I just flat out dont think its a reasonable deer caliber for most people, and dont even want bolt action .223 legal.  Can it kill a deer?  Sure, but its a very marginal caliber for that purpose.  Better to step it up a notch.  I dont think requiring somebody to use a 6mm to hunt big game is asking too much.  And as far as selling out 2a rights, i never said people shouldnt own, carry, or even hunt with a .223, ar or not.  I just dont think we should be able to hunt big game with them.  Varmints yes.  Deer no.

[jay.sharkbait]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

I agree 100%

I am very pro AR15 and think it's a fantastic platform for youth and disabled hunters.

Huntwa has a few handwringing fart dust negative Nancy's who hate modern sporting rifles. They like to portray anyone who hunts with an AR style rifle in a negative light and would sell out another hunters 2nd amendment rights at the drop of the hat.

I have an ar too.  Im not done with it, but when i am its going to be a dedicated night time coyote gun.  But i dont see any benefit to hunting big game with one other than being able to "spray and pray."  But im not just against .223 because i know a ton of idiots would fling lead at deer elk and bear with ars.  I just flat out dont think its a reasonable deer caliber for most people, and dont even want bolt action .223 legal.  Can it kill a deer?  Sure, but its a very marginal caliber for that purpose.  Better to step it up a notch.  I dont think requiring somebody to use a 6mm to hunt big game is asking too much.  And as far as selling out 2a rights, i never said people shouldnt own, carry, or even hunt with a .223, ar or not.  I just dont think we should be able to hunt big game with them.  Varmints yes.  Deer no.

What makes you think I was referring to you?

[Bango skank]

Maybe the fact that you posted that right after i badmouthed *censored*bags with ars 

Just wanted to be clear.  Its not ars im against, its stupid people.  And unfortunately, from what ive seen, most people are stupid.  And a large percentage of hunters see deer season as "screw the laws, screw ethics, act like a wild animal and do crap we would never do outside of deer season" season.

[jay.sharkbait]

Maybe the fact that you posted that right after i badmouthed *censored*bags with ars 

Just wanted to be clear.  Its not ars im against, its stupid people.  And unfortunately, from what ive seen, most people are stupid.  And a large percentage of hunters see deer season as "screw the laws, screw ethics, act like a wild animal and do crap we would never do outside of deer season" season.

I haven't seen anything like what you are talking about.

[Bango skank]

Well, its in the big string of quotes in your reply.  Whatever.  How bout dem seahawks?  Im drunk leave me alone 

[JDHasty]

Based on what Ive witnessed over the 45+ years Ive been hunting as an adult,  I can honestly say I believe 3/4 of the hunters out there are common morons.  Now let them use .223 and Im sure the number of morons will surpass 3/4.   And that goes for 3/4s of the guys who hunt 121 whether they're from here or elsewhere.......if they're not littering and stealing, they're trespassing, driving around locked gates, all of the above........yep, common morons.   

   tell these guys .223 is legal and theyll all be roading around dumping 30rd mags at running animals from 300 yards.  Guaranteed

you can still hunt with ar15 this year,i didn't see anybody dumping mag .
That's little funny cause i hunt in 121 , just another moron ,I thought if there was anyplace I would see support for hunting rights it would of been huntwashington,i don't see a lot comments about the YouTube I posted,nobody has nothing to say when they see that caliber in action.That's one of dozens of YouTube I coulnd post ,mostly youth,and that is the future of hunting

I agree 100%

I am very pro AR15 and think it's a fantastic platform for youth and disabled hunters.

Huntwa has a few handwringing fart dust negative Nancy's who hate modern sporting rifles. They like to portray anyone who hunts with an AR style rifle in a negative light and would sell out another hunters 2nd amendment rights at the drop of the hat.

I have an ar too.  Im not done with it, but when i am its going to be a dedicated night time coyote gun.  But i dont see any benefit to hunting big game with one other than being able to "spray and pray."  But im not just against .223 because i know a ton of idiots would fling lead at deer elk and bear with ars.  I just flat out dont think its a reasonable deer caliber for most people, and dont even want bolt action .223 legal.  Can it kill a deer?  Sure, but its a very marginal caliber for that purpose.  Better to step it up a notch.  I dont think requiring somebody to use a 6mm to hunt big game is asking too much.  And as far as selling out 2a rights, i never said people shouldnt own, carry, or even hunt with a .223, ar or not.  I just dont think we should be able to hunt big game with them.  Varmints yes.  Deer no.

I am right there with you on this one.  We have ARs laying around, one of them is a flat top with a M4 barrel and sliding stock I put together out of my "bag of tricks" for the kids, because it will fit them.  But when Bridget passed Hunter Ed, I took apart my Contender and put a 7-30 Waters barrel on it with a kids stock.  If 223 was legal, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have still ponied up the cash for a barrel, dies, bullets and done the same. 

To paint me as an AR 15 hater is nonsense.  OMG, how that is nonsense.  I have said I will never leave Tacoma again to go chuck shooting with anyone who has either a 10/22 or an AR 15, and for good reason.  I don't know why, but they lose their damn mind.  But my little Remington R15 is becoming, pretty much, all I take predator hunting and I could GAS if my partner has an AR 15 as well if I know them well.  But I cringe when someone who is just getting into predator calling has an AR because I don't want volley fire directed at a running dog that ends up sending a magazine full all over hell's half acre.  They get to leave the truck with three rounds PERIOD, if they are with me.  And in those cases, I use my old Remington 788 in 22-250 just to reinforce the point that I don't want them sending a round downrange that is not a kill shot. 

My little R15 is GTG.  And I like being able to get really solid and then not have to work the bolt on a second customer.  Even if I was promised that only singles would show, it is such a tinker toy that it is preferable.  It is that accurate.