Change the 24 caliber min in washington(added poll please vote)

[bobcat]

It's no different than the "complaining" that occurred when people wanted lighted nocks legal for archery. And now they're legal.

And copper jacketed bullets legal for muzzleloader hunting. And now they're legal.

If there's no good reason for something to be illegal, then people have a right to complain. That's how these things eventually get changed.

The 223 wasn't legal for big game in Wyoming a few years ago. Now it is. These dumb laws CAN be changed.

I tell my kids too if everyone is jumping off that 100 foot bridge it does not make it right for you to follow them.

Saying that complaining and whining is an affective way to induce change is ludicrous.

Well first, I don't see any of this as "complaining." It's a discussion.

How would you go about getting dumb laws changed? Wound you not discuss the issue with your peers?

I would for sure Bobcat, simply pointing out all the complaining.  So now are we going to argue about complaining?

Again, I would argue that we're not arguing.     We are discussing.

[jay.sharkbait]

Ya you can't fix stupid
Wdfw always says how there under funded,but things like this rule can bring in more hunters,in state , and out of state.young ,old,woman,ect.I really don't think where much different than the other states around us.I guess we will keep living the California laws.

The type of people it would bring you probably wouldn't want out in the woods.   I wonder about the wisdom of the people that are angling for it.  It's dumb and ill advised.  It would lead to a lot of wounded and/or unrecovered animals.  So why would a reasonable and knowledgable hunter want that?

These are completely unfounded statements.  I guess I'm dumb and ill advised.  Reasonable and knowledgeable means being willing to open your mind to things outside of your norm.  Anyone that thinks a .22 centerfire is incapable of killing big game animals cleanly and humanely is obviously not willing to open their mind.

If'n you want to be a bonehead..... then be a bonehead.  Buck the trend and do things the hard way.  You may learn things on the way to "enlightenment".

The pole indicates I am in the majority here and I do not engage in internet tough guy conversations.  I would bet if you were sitting across from me face to face you would not chime in like you did.  Bob33 and I have history, I do not know you from around these parts.  Move on...

Isn't this classic internet tough guy?

[JLS]

Ya you can't fix stupid
Wdfw always says how there under funded,but things like this rule can bring in more hunters,in state , and out of state.young ,old,woman,ect.I really don't think where much different than the other states around us.I guess we will keep living the California laws.

The type of people it would bring you probably wouldn't want out in the woods.   I wonder about the wisdom of the people that are angling for it.  It's dumb and ill advised.  It would lead to a lot of wounded and/or unrecovered animals.  So why would a reasonable and knowledgable hunter want that?

These are completely unfounded statements.  I guess I'm dumb and ill advised.  Reasonable and knowledgeable means being willing to open your mind to things outside of your norm.  Anyone that thinks a .22 centerfire is incapable of killing big game animals cleanly and humanely is obviously not willing to open their mind.

If'n you want to be a bonehead..... then be a bonehead.  Buck the trend and do things the hard way.  You may learn things on the way to "enlightenment".

I know quite a few "boneheads" who are quite accomplished hunters who have killed a pile of animals with substandard center fire cartridges.  I have learned some things, one of which an open mind is a valuable tool.

[Bill W]

Ya you can't fix stupid
Wdfw always says how there under funded,but things like this rule can bring in more hunters,in state , and out of state.young ,old,woman,ect.I really don't think where much different than the other states around us.I guess we will keep living the California laws.

The type of people it would bring you probably wouldn't want out in the woods.   I wonder about the wisdom of the people that are angling for it.  It's dumb and ill advised.  It would lead to a lot of wounded and/or unrecovered animals.  So why would a reasonable and knowledgable hunter want that?

These are completely unfounded statements.  I guess I'm dumb and ill advised.  Reasonable and knowledgeable means being willing to open your mind to things outside of your norm.  Anyone that thinks a .22 centerfire is incapable of killing big game animals cleanly and humanely is obviously not willing to open their mind.

If'n you want to be a bonehead..... then be a bonehead.  Buck the trend and do things the hard way.  You may learn things on the way to "enlightenment".

The pole indicates I am in the majority here and I do not engage in internet tough guy conversations.  I would bet if you were sitting across from me face to face you would not chime in like you did.  Bob33 and I have history, I do not know you from around these parts.  Move on...

Isn't this classic internet tough guy?

Thing that gets me is he's sticking up for someone who wasn't even picked on.   I guess the whole lot was home schooled.

[JLS]

I guess the whole lot was home schooled.

Wow, more open mindedness. 

[Bill W]

Ya you can't fix stupid
Wdfw always says how there under funded,but things like this rule can bring in more hunters,in state , and out of state.young ,old,woman,ect.I really don't think where much different than the other states around us.I guess we will keep living the California laws.

The type of people it would bring you probably wouldn't want out in the woods.   I wonder about the wisdom of the people that are angling for it.  It's dumb and ill advised.  It would lead to a lot of wounded and/or unrecovered animals.  So why would a reasonable and knowledgable hunter want that?

These are completely unfounded statements.  I guess I'm dumb and ill advised.  Reasonable and knowledgeable means being willing to open your mind to things outside of your norm.  Anyone that thinks a .22 centerfire is incapable of killing big game animals cleanly and humanely is obviously not willing to open their mind.

If'n you want to be a bonehead..... then be a bonehead.  Buck the trend and do things the hard way.  You may learn things on the way to "enlightenment".

The pole indicates I am in the majority here and I do not engage in internet tough guy conversations.  I would bet if you were sitting across from me face to face you would not chime in like you did.  Bob33 and I have history, I do not know you from around these parts.  Move on...

One more post I want to address before I move on.   Don't go making out I'm smarter than I am.  My wife would attest to the fact that yes I would say the same to you face to face.   It's also on the path to "enlightenment'.

[Jonathan_S]

Don't go making out I'm smarter than I am.

I believe you are safe from that happening.

[Special T]

Don't go making out I'm smarter than I am.

I believe you are safe from that happening.

Lol

[pianoman9701]

Interesting voting. I voted change because there's such a huge variety of game and a one-size-fits-all caliber restriction doesn't seem to make sense to me. 

[dscubame]

Ya you can't fix stupid
Wdfw always says how there under funded,but things like this rule can bring in more hunters,in state , and out of state.young ,old,woman,ect.I really don't think where much different than the other states around us.I guess we will keep living the California laws.

The type of people it would bring you probably wouldn't want out in the woods.   I wonder about the wisdom of the people that are angling for it.  It's dumb and ill advised.  It would lead to a lot of wounded and/or unrecovered animals.  So why would a reasonable and knowledgable hunter want that?

These are completely unfounded statements.  I guess I'm dumb and ill advised.  Reasonable and knowledgeable means being willing to open your mind to things outside of your norm.  Anyone that thinks a .22 centerfire is incapable of killing big game animals cleanly and humanely is obviously not willing to open their mind.

If'n you want to be a bonehead..... then be a bonehead.  Buck the trend and do things the hard way.  You may learn things on the way to "enlightenment".

The pole indicates I am in the majority here and I do not engage in internet tough guy conversations.  I would bet if you were sitting across from me face to face you would not chime in like you did.  Bob33 and I have history, I do not know you from around these parts.  Move on...

One more post I want to address before I move on.   Don't go making out I'm smarter than I am.  My wife would attest to the fact that yes I would say the same to you face to face.   It's also on the path to "enlightenment'.

I could have been nicer and less argumentative.  My bad and I would buy you a beer if I could to mend the fence.

[pianoman9701]

Ya you can't fix stupid
Wdfw always says how there under funded,but things like this rule can bring in more hunters,in state , and out of state.young ,old,woman,ect.I really don't think where much different than the other states around us.I guess we will keep living the California laws.

The type of people it would bring you probably wouldn't want out in the woods.   I wonder about the wisdom of the people that are angling for it.  It's dumb and ill advised.  It would lead to a lot of wounded and/or unrecovered animals.  So why would a reasonable and knowledgable hunter want that?

These are completely unfounded statements.  I guess I'm dumb and ill advised.  Reasonable and knowledgeable means being willing to open your mind to things outside of your norm.  Anyone that thinks a .22 centerfire is incapable of killing big game animals cleanly and humanely is obviously not willing to open their mind.

If'n you want to be a bonehead..... then be a bonehead.  Buck the trend and do things the hard way.  You may learn things on the way to "enlightenment".

The pole indicates I am in the majority here and I do not engage in internet tough guy conversations.  I would bet if you were sitting across from me face to face you would not chime in like you did.  Bob33 and I have history, I do not know you from around these parts.  Move on...

One more post I want to address before I move on.   Don't go making out I'm smarter than I am.  My wife would attest to the fact that yes I would say the same to you face to face.   It's also on the path to "enlightenment'.

Is there any indication or data from the other states which allow lower calibers on various game that these lower calibers account for more lost game? If so, why would those states continue to allow it? Is there any data that changing the restrictions would attract "The type of people ... you probably wouldn't want out in the woods"? And, what type of people would this be? Smaller people who would benefit from being able to use a smaller caliber? Female, older, and/or disabled people? That a majority of people have voted against the restrictions on an unofficial and unscientific HuntWA poll means nothing. Without data and opinion from game departments who currently allow smaller caliber use, your assumptions are completely unfounded.

[boneaddict]

Not picking on you here John, but just curious how this type of data would be collected.

[Bob33]

I’ve never seen statistically valid data that compares the effectiveness of .22 caliber centerfire rifles to larger calibers on big game. Perhaps it exists.

Everything being equal, it’s a generally accepted premise that larger bullets with more energy kill more quickly than smaller bullets with less energy. Of course, a well-placed smaller bullet will kill more effectively than a poorly placed larger bullet. “Everything being equal.”

The FBI studies effectiveness of handgun calibers. Do they conclude that smaller, lighter projectiles kill as well as larger, heavier projectiles?

Most, but not all states have minimum standards for firearms and/or archery equipment used for hunting. It’s only an assumption, but I suspect it is because of ethical concerns that insufficient equipment could result in more wounded game.

Switching to archery - can a 20 pound bow kill deer? Of course it can. Should all draw weight considerations be stricken as well?

[bobcat]

I wonder if there's any data that would prove a 223 caliber rifle will kill just as well as a 9mm Glock?

[Bob33]

I wonder if there's any data that would prove a 223 caliber rifle will kill just as well as a 9mm Glock?

Are you in favor of removing all caliber and draw weight restrictions for big game hunting?