22 cal for deer

[Mongo Hunter]

I have a bolt action .223 that holds 5 rounds, would that be better?

I have never seen or overheard any discussions wherein racking the bolt and pulling the trigger as fast as you can get off five shots with a bolt action rifle has ever been discussed as a legitimate strategy for big game hunting.  I have never seen any serious discussion of that methodology being advocated by lever action aficionados.  What I have seen is quite a few serious discussions wherein volley fire was being discussed and the pro magazine dumping side had people lining up to defend it as a legitimate way to use an AR15 for bringing down big game.  My concern is that if the only thing standing between hordes of people with a "$500 AR from Dicks" and quintuple tapping deer at 300 yards is that those hordes cannot today legally use their "$500 AR from Dicks" for legally hunting deer.   

Seriously? how about a $300 semi auto shotgun using 3" shells of buck shot. 3 rounds "triple tapping" would give you 45 pellets flying through the air. that's cheap and legal but you have no problem with that? or the old semi auto hunting rifles in .308 or 30-06 that typically go for less than $500?

AND the AR platform has become more popular and advanced in the last decade yet hunting accidents are on the decline.

your logic is flawed, go home your drunk 

Hunting with a shotgun requires you to get close and buckshot loses energy fast past 50 yards. That's why numerous Eastern states only allow shotguns in certain areas with high population densities. The 223 bullet is deadly past 500 yards and the AR is easy to shoot out of the box. 

There are areas near where I live that are overhunted and I would not want to add ARs in them during general. I do not want jack-asses showing up with their $500 AR to hunt deer. Yes I would prefer them to show up with a $300 shotgun. Most of these guys are "road hunters" and would never get close enough with a shotgun. Half of them can barely walk.

Next time try asking for an explanation instead of jumping to insults.

I stay with that I don't want the government putting restrictions on me on what tool I decide to use.

Those road hunters will be the same with or without an AR. they could have there granddads 30-30 in their car and spray out the window with that. The tools are not going to change someone ethics. they could use an old semi auto 30-06 and "spray bullets". jerks are going to be jerks doesn't matter the tools. and why use a $500 AR from dicks to hunt when you could spend less on a bolt hunting rifle? because it looks cool? like I said most of these guys wouldn't last long anyways as hunters.

I swear this I why the gun community can be its own worst enemy. even we forget its about the individual right. if you don't want to use an AR .223 to hunt then don't use on. don't restrict other peoples rights.

[pianoman9701]

  Not to mention that the comment of  "Half of them can barely walk" shows no empathy for older and disabled hunters who benefit greatly by road hunting and/or using an AR to continue hunting instead of having to quit because of some random shotgun restriction pushed by a "fellow" hunter. Again, it's ridiculous and arbitrary.

Back to the original thread, I would support lower caliber restrictions for deer. .223 or other centerfire .22 caliber are plenty of killing power. But pushing for it it would open us up to further restriction and I'm against that. Personally, I'd leave it alone.

[konradcountry]

So because of the actions of a few we should ban AR's from hunting? if we go down that slope NONE of us will be allowed to hunt anymore. How many of us know someone that has done something unethical during hunting season? Taken a bad shot? didn't know their equipment well enough? over estimated their own skill level? I guarantee everyone here knows or has heard of someone doing something stupid. And second that's a pig hunting video, not deer. People shoot those things from helicopters because they have become such a nuisance. Also they were shooting at an area where they could see their targets and what beyond it. not spraying bullets through the woods.

So first you say no one is spraying bullets and now you acknowledge it is done during hog hunting. I would even bet a million dollars I could email a land based Texas hog outfitter and tell him I can only "spray and pray" with an AR and he would welcome me to a hunt.

You are deluded if you think no one has sprayed and prayed deer in our state. A jack-ass who comes across a good size buck is not going to simply let it go with one shot if he has a semi-auto. He is going to trail it with bullets and everyone knows it. But the typical jack-ass at least will not buy an AR-10 or Garand for being cost prohibitive. Opening the 223 without restrictions would bring in the black friday special ARs and I don't see a good cost/benefit ratio in doing so.

as for your second comment, people already use guns and tactics they probably shouldn't during hunting season. If someone is an unethical jerk they always will be.

Hunting rules work, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Of course there are pricks that will always ignore the rules but there are also the guys in the middle that won't risk losing their license just to save a few hundred dollars on a new rifle.

if someone used a .22LR for an elk for one they are an idiot

Well of course but being an idiot isn't going to be enough of a deterrent.

but your going to the extreme to make a point that I frankly think would never happen. I don't see any hunter using a 22LR for an elk.

Poachers use a 22 for everything. In Alaska the natives shoot all kinds of stuff with a 22 to save money on ammo.

and PETA is already up our butts for being hunters.

The point is that this is Washington and we are not the majority. We have to tread carefully or King county voters will go with a crude ban that they don't even understand. Just like they did with the trapping bill.

[Bob33]

Not to mention that the comment of  "Half of them can barely walk" shows no empathy for older and disabled hunters who benefit greatly by road hunting and/or using an AR to continue hunting instead of having to quit because of some random shotgun restriction pushed by a "fellow" hunter. Again, it's ridiculous and arbitrary.

Back to the original thread, I would support lower caliber restrictions for deer. .223 or other centerfire .22 caliber are plenty of killing power. But pushing for it it would open us up to further restriction and I'm against that. Personally, I'd leave it alone.

The number of threads and disagreements that have resulted from this topic on Hunt WA lend credence to that.

[JDHasty]

Here's a link for anybody that wants to turn there ar15 into a hunting rifle I was wrong 89.99 will buy a new barrel.
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=300+blackout+barrel&uac=true

A barrel for an AR is not an interchangeable barrel like would be a barrel for a Contender and my inclination is that you more likely than not know that.

I can change a barrel on ar15 in about 10 min it is very project that can make a deer rifle quick and lots of YouTube on the how to,no it's not as quick contender , but that's all you need is a barrel , your bolt ,mags,all other parts interchange on 300 blk .

You obviously don't know what you are talking about, you need specialized tools or you will a) likely distort your upper receiver b) not have the first clue whether your barrel nut is tightened to within specification c) you probably should also have a selection of barrel nuts or maybe a barrel nut shim kit on hand in order to get the barrel nut properly timed when torqued to spec... unless you have a lathe available.

I suppose that a guy could possibly use a hone or lap the receiver in place of a lathe for c in order to have the nut timed when the barrel nut is tightened to within spec, but I don't think I would do it that way.   

It has been quite a while since I have assembled an upper receiver assy, but I do remember that much.   

[pianoman9701]

Not to mention that the comment of  "Half of them can barely walk" shows no empathy for older and disabled hunters who benefit greatly by road hunting and/or using an AR to continue hunting instead of having to quit because of some random shotgun restriction pushed by a "fellow" hunter. Again, it's ridiculous and arbitrary.

Back to the original thread, I would support lower caliber restrictions for deer. .223 or other centerfire .22 caliber are plenty of killing power. But pushing for it it would open us up to further restriction and I'm against that. Personally, I'd leave it alone.

The number of threads and disagreements that have resulted from this topic on Hunt WA lend credence to that.

I yielded to your wisdom on this one, Bob. It makes sense. They never give something without taking something away.

[Mongo Hunter]

Alternate compromise:

.22 Caliber center fire is allowed but limit detachable box mags to 5 rounds?

Its a comprises but most of us that hunt with bolt guns only get 3-5 rounds anyways.

just an idea. open to thoughts.

[konradcountry]

Those road hunters will be the same with or without an AR. they could have there granddads 30-30 in their car and spray out the window with that. The tools are not going to change someone ethics. they could use an old semi auto 30-06 and "spray bullets". jerks are going to be jerks doesn't matter the tools. and why use a $500 AR from dicks to hunt when you could spend less on a bolt hunting rifle? because it looks cool? like I said most of these guys wouldn't last long anyways as hunters.

It's called adding fuel to the fire. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of them do not have access to an old semi 3006 and the AR-15 is far easier to spray than anything with a lever. Yes they are going to buy the $500 AR because they think it is cool. You must not work with the public much if that is a surprise to you. I even once talked to a gun store owner who said he likes how he can always sell them all year long because of the cool factor.

I swear this I why the gun community can be its own worst enemy. even we forget its about the individual right. if you don't want to use an AR .223 to hunt then don't use on. don't restrict other peoples rights.

Hunting with an AR-15 isn't a right anymore than hunting with a 338 next to an urban center in the middle of the night. Gun ownership is a right but there is no right to hunt however you want with whatever caliber you want.

[jackelope]

So because of the actions of a few we should ban AR's from hunting? if we go down that slope NONE of us will be allowed to hunt anymore. How many of us know someone that has done something unethical during hunting season? Taken a bad shot? didn't know their equipment well enough? over estimated their own skill level? I guarantee everyone here knows or has heard of someone doing something stupid. And second that's a pig hunting video, not deer. People shoot those things from helicopters because they have become such a nuisance. Also they were shooting at an area where they could see their targets and what beyond it. not spraying bullets through the woods.

So first you say no one is spraying bullets and now you acknowledge it is done during hog hunting. I would even bet a million dollars I could email a land based Texas hog outfitter and tell him I can only "spray and pray" with an AR and he would welcome me to a hunt.

You are deluded if you think no one has sprayed and prayed deer in our state. A jack-ass who comes across a good size buck is not going to simply let it go with one shot if he has a semi-auto. He is going to trail it with bullets and everyone knows it. But the typical jack-ass at least will not buy an AR-10 or Garand for being cost prohibitive. Opening the 223 without restrictions would bring in the black friday special ARs and I don't see a good cost/benefit ratio in doing so.

as for your second comment, people already use guns and tactics they probably shouldn't during hunting season. If someone is an unethical jerk they always will be.

Hunting rules work, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Of course there are pricks that will always ignore the rules but there are also the guys in the middle that won't risk losing their license just to save a few hundred dollars on a new rifle.

if someone used a .22LR for an elk for one they are an idiot

Well of course but being an idiot isn't going to be enough of a deterrent.

but your going to the extreme to make a point that I frankly think would never happen. I don't see any hunter using a 22LR for an elk.

Poachers use a 22 for everything. In Alaska the natives shoot all kinds of stuff with a 22 to save money on ammo.

and PETA is already up our butts for being hunters.

The point is that this is Washington and we are not the majority. We have to tread carefully or King county voters will go with a crude ban that they don't even understand. Just like they did with the trapping bill.

konradcountry...
I totally 100% disagree with legalizing .22 caliber centerfire rifles for big game hunting. Your first comments make it sound like you think the price of the rifle or the size of your wallet will make the difference whether or not people do dumb things behind the trigger.
Pretty sure in Alaska a lot of the subsistence hunters are using AR rifles in .223, not .22LR rifles, for their hunting. Maybe .22LR running traplines or something like that, but they're not out hunting with their rimfires unless they're hunting ptarmigan or the like.

[jackelope]

Most of the people I know who own AR rifles because "they're cool" are rolling the $1500 rifles, not the $500 rifles. And they're fully rigged for battle for some reason.
Most of these folks I've watched shoot can't shoot sub-6" groups with them at 50 yards. Having shot rifles over the last couple years with a group of men who are predominantly not hunters, it amazes me how much they don't know about sighting rifles in, shooting accurately, etc. and these guys are shooting Daniel Defense, LMT, high priced custom builds, etc. not the $500 rifles.

[hunter399]

Even if it was bolt gun , or 5 round mag,i would still like the option,if was to say let's have 5 round limit , and keep the caliber the 24 caliber the same how many would agree with that.one thing I find is hunting seems to be better in some of the state's that do allow it .And in Alaska who knows what they do in remote areas.

[Mongo Hunter]

Those road hunters will be the same with or without an AR. they could have there granddads 30-30 in their car and spray out the window with that. The tools are not going to change someone ethics. they could use an old semi auto 30-06 and "spray bullets". jerks are going to be jerks doesn't matter the tools. and why use a $500 AR from dicks to hunt when you could spend less on a bolt hunting rifle? because it looks cool? like I said most of these guys wouldn't last long anyways as hunters.

It's called adding fuel to the fire. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of them do not have access to an old semi 3006 and the AR-15 is far easier to spray than anything with a lever. Yes they are going to buy the $500 AR because they think it is cool. You must not work with the public much if that is a surprise to you. I even once talked to a gun store owner who said he likes how he can always sell them all year long because of the cool factor.

I swear this I why the gun community can be its own worst enemy. even we forget its about the individual right. if you don't want to use an AR .223 to hunt then don't use on. don't restrict other peoples rights.

Hunting with an AR-15 isn't a right anymore than hunting with a 338 next to an urban center in the middle of the night. Gun ownership is a right but there is no right to hunt however you want with whatever caliber you want.

I do work with the public and I know people buy AR's because its cool but I don't think that makes it a hunting problem. strip away the fancy plastic and rails and what is an AR? a semi auto .223, nothing more. so saying Hunting with an AR-15 isn't a right you are saying we shouldn't hunt with ANY semi auto rifles. and there are already laws against hunting near an urban area so that remark is ridiculous.

I know of a couple people who hunt with an AR style rifle (6.8 I believe) and they are not $500 Dicks specials and ive never heard of them spraying anything.

I have been hunting for 16 years now and 99% of the hunters I come across hunting deer use bolt guns or semi autos of high caliber. you are trying to make the slippery slope/fuel to the fire argument in the same way libs use it for gun control in general.

when they were first introducing modern concealed carry laws all the libs were in an uproar saying the streets were going to be like the wild west again. same slippery slope argument. the laws passed and what happened? nothing. no wild west shootouts.

and also think of the benefits of allowing .22 center fire. $500 dicks special guns and inexpensive ammo. it might get more people interested in hunting. I see it as more people on our side, more money going to conservation. just a thought.

[hunter399]

On the topic of ar seems like everybody has one but nobody what's to use for hunting,all my guns have been used for hunting one time or more ,they are tools, I won't buy a gun that I can't hunt something with no use for it,and they double for self defense.

[JDHasty]

Most of the people I know who own AR rifles because "they're cool" are rolling the $1500 rifles, not the $500 rifles. And they're fully rigged for battle for some reason.
Most of these folks I've watched shoot can't shoot sub-6" groups with them at 50 yards. Having shot rifles over the last couple years with a group of men who are predominantly not hunters, it amazes me how much they don't know about sighting rifles in, shooting accurately, etc. and these guys are shooting Daniel Defense, LMT, high priced custom builds, etc. not the $500 rifles.

That is my experience as well. 

[konradcountry]

konradcountry...
I totally 100% disagree with legalizing .22 caliber centerfire rifles for big game hunting. Your first comments make it sound like you think the price of the rifle or the size of your wallet will make the difference whether or not people do dumb things behind the trigger.

Yes price is absolutely related to what people can do when it comes to dumb things behind the trigger.

If .50 BMG rifles were $200 at Wal-mart then we would hear far more stories about jack-asses doing dumb things with them.
 

Pretty sure in Alaska a lot of the subsistence hunters are using AR rifles in .223, not .22LR rifles, for their hunting. Maybe .22LR running traplines or something like that, but they're not out hunting with their rimfires unless they're hunting ptarmigan or the like.

The Inuit headshot caribou and seal with them. Here is a thread on it:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?25514-Biggest-Animal-with-22