Multiple tags Drawn

[M_ray]

bye bye elk,maybe R.M.E.F can keep us stocked  for everyone to draw.you are not looking at the big picture and i fear you wont so im done.someone from WDFW can chime in i have hogged this enough.

The elk didn't disappear back when this was reality AND with far more hunters???  So how are they going to disappear now?  The percentage of harvest rate and the amount of animals harvested has remained relatively even across the board. I have that somewhere and I'll have to find it. A few years back now on here a system change was suggested and we found data that supported the harvest rates did not change much at all with more people hunting, and when there was  greater chance of draw, not to mention the seasons were longer back then as well. The herd size for both deer and elk were larger than they are now and people were drawing more often so I'm pretty sure they are not going to be wiped out anytime soon.

You are forgetting that you are not going to have the same amount of people per category???  Your fears would be reality if you increased everyones take and odds for each species and let everyone stay in each.  If people have to choose that is going to eliminate the amount of people in each one increasing your odds in the one you choose. Statistically it cant happen the way you are thinking. You really aren't loosing anything but you are gaining in the one you want to target and history has already proved that people are not going to all choose the same thing every year. 

[M_ray]

oh i cant not reply to that.you want to make it a rich mans sport?i know its only 7.5 more but have you looked at the already rise in tag costs?

                  no matter what everyone can never agree on everything  FOR LONG

If you haven't been playing along it's already is a rich mans sport 

I never suggested a rate increase...
You are assuming that a person only puts in for one category now which would double his cost. If everyone was putting in for one category we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. The reality is 90% put in for all of them, I know I do. So once again you are going to pay 3 bucks a category for 5 that equals 15 or have to choose one at 15 and you spend the same amount so there is no difference really.

We all know the state isn't going to give up revenue so any proposal is going to have to come with an equal or close to dollar amount attached so its economics 101. It's a no brainer to pay the same amount now for a greater chance at a draw than I currently have. Again you may be the exception to the rule and in some cases someone may pay more and some may even pay less but it will increase your odds for the one thing you want.

[Oh Mah]

from 2004 to 2015  --------------06 09 13 are the only years where more hunters than 2015 2009 had 45.28 million 2004 had 34.19 million nationwide. 2015 had 35.85 million  (you were saying) these are nationwide numbers.more gun owners now also THANK YOU OBAMA LOL.
2004-34.19 million
2005-34.67                     2013-36.39
2006-36.13                     2014-35.24
2007-35.61                     2015-35.85
2008-35.18
2009-45.28
2010-34.08
2011-34.66
2012-35.71

[M_ray]

from 2004 to 2015  --------------06 09 13 are the only years where more hunters than 2015 2009 had 45.28 million 2004 had 34.19 million nationwide. 2015 had 35.85 million  (you were saying) these are nationwide numbers.more gun owners now also THANK YOU OBAMA LOL.
2004-34.19 million
2005-34.67                     2013-36.39
2006-36.13                     2014-35.24
2007-35.61                     2015-35.85
2008-35.18
2009-45.28
2010-34.08
2011-34.66
2012-35.71

Your numbers don't mean a thing ... in order to compare evenly you need to show numbers from WA only, since it is WA draw odds that we are talking about right? Wa had more hunters in the 70's and 80's and longer seasons than we do now and harvest statistics proved to be relatively the same, Lets at least compare apples to apples? 

[Oh Mah]

Not enough honesty in this state i guess,i don't find that info.the numbers i gave whether you accept or not no matter.they show GROWING interest in the sport not declining,also even you SHOULD not deny the fact that women hunt more now than ever before.

[Curly]

Here's some stats:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/fhw11-wa.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjY7Yr0ptHSAhXnw1QKHcr-C-8QFghAMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFdgoe-trjXeAMnjdEcfYGrPi1sMQ&sig2=YENrkWrxb5FAwHFdV10yqA

[LabChamp]

Keep it the same. Helps keep point creep in check

[BULLBLASTER]

One change that I think would help a ton is make permits take the place of your general hunt. If you draw a permit that hunt is what you get that year. No general season option with it. That would make people think about what they want to apply for and have less permits go unhunted. 

Not sure how to make that happen with the possibility of drawing multiple permits tho.

[M_ray]

Here's some stats:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/fhw11-wa.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjY7Yr0ptHSAhXnw1QKHcr-C-8QFghAMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFdgoe-trjXeAMnjdEcfYGrPi1sMQ&sig2=YENrkWrxb5FAwHFdV10yqA

Thanks Curly I did have this around somewhere saved on my last computer so I have seen this one before. If you look close at Curly's link on page 23 you'll see that between 2001 and 2011 hunting has dropped by nearly 10k in WA and by now probably has eclipsed 10k. Under a better plan where odds are better as they were in the past you can get that  doe or cow tag just about every year and not have to wait 5-6. Youth would be able to draw and have success immediately and thus keep their interest in hunting. 

[Oh Mah]

Where you say probably has eclipsed i say more than likely not.look the term of obummer has spike gun sales gun sales have boosted hunting interest.I believe what the stats i showed show. hunter numbers are up and will continue to rise with economy.leave the system alone like most say.

[Oh Mah]

One change that I think would help a ton is make permits take the place of your general hunt. If you draw a permit that hunt is what you get that year. No general season option with it. That would make people think about what they want to apply for and have less permits go unhunted. 

Not sure how to make that happen with the possibility of drawing multiple permits tho.

This would be an improvement to the plan already in place.if you draw antlerless you can't shoot a buck.if you draw cow you can;t shoot spike etc. 

[Oh Mah]

same site as curly
91-246 k
96-271 k
01-227 k
06-182 k
11-218 k

[Oh Mah]

I just found a site( results WA.) That blows these numbers out of the water over the past 5 years.Anyways the silence on this site from the WDFW- LEO,or any other entity working within the dept. is deafening.

[Curly]

I believe hunter numbers are continuing to decline for the same reasons they were back in 2007 when this article was written.  Access to a place to hunt has gotten even worse in the last 10 years.  I definitely believe that to be a big reason behind less people hunting. 

I think I've read more recent stats on hunter numbers declining.........can't find that article right now, but here's and older article:

Number of U.S. hunters dwindles



The Associated Press

Hunters remain a powerful force in American society, as evidenced by the presidential candidates who routinely pay them homage, but their ranks are shrinking dramatically and wildlife agencies worry increasingly about the loss of sorely needed license-fee revenue.
New figures from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service show that the number of hunters 16 and older declined by 10% between 1996 and 2006 — from 14 million to about 12.5 million. The drop was most acute in New England, the Rocky Mountains, and the Pacific states, which lost 400,000 hunters in that span.

The primary reasons, experts say, are the loss of hunting land to urbanization plus a perception by many families that they can't afford the time or costs that hunting entails.

"To recruit new hunters, it takes hunting families," said Gregg Patterson of Ducks Unlimited. "I was introduced to it by my father, he was introduced to it by his father. When you have boys and girls without a hunter in the household, it's tough to give them the experience."

Some animal-welfare activists welcome the trend, noting that it coincides with a 13% increase in wildlife watching since 1996. But hunters and state wildlife agencies, as they prepare for the fall hunting season, say the drop is worrisome.

"It's hunters who are the most willing to give their own dollar for wildlife conservation," Patterson said.

Compounding the problem, the number of Americans who fish also has dropped sharply — down 15%, from 35.2 million in 1996 to 30 million in 2006, according to the latest version of a national survey that the Fish and Wildlife Service conducts every five years.

Of the 50 state wildlife agencies, most rely on hunting and fishing license fees for the bulk of their revenue, and only a handful receive significant infusions from their state's general fund.

"They're trying to take care of all wildlife and all habitats on a shoestring budget," said Rachel Brittin of the Washington-based Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies.

In New Hampshire, only multiple fee increases — which produced numerous complaints — have enabled the Fish and Game Department to keep revenues robust. Its ranks of registered hunters has dropped from 83,292 in 1996 to 61,076 last year, according to department spokeswoman Judy Stokes.

"We hear concerns about land access," Stokes said. "People grew up hunting — you went out with your family, your uncle. And now you go back, and there's a shopping plaza or a housing development. Some of your favorite places just aren't available anymore."

National hunting expert Mark Damian Duda, executive director of Virginia-based research firm Responsive Management, says America's increasingly urban and suburban culture makes it less friendly toward the pastime.

"You don't just get up and go hunting one day — your father or father-type figure has to have hunted," Duda said. "In a rural environment, where your friends and family hunt, you feel comfortable with guns, you feel comfortable with killing an animal."

[Allen23]

Wow, happy to see so many responses! Thanks everyone. If I may chime in I don't mind loosing my points if I get drawn for multiple, I just hate to see someone " throwing a tag away" I would gladly give my extra tag ( if I drew 2) to fellow hunter. There are lots of wounded worrier projects out there. Or even senior citizen or disabled hunter programs. Give someone a reason to get out in the wood that might not have had the chance that year.  The WDFW is going to get their money anyway we already know we wont be able to stop that run away train wreck. All you guys that have 10+ points on bull elk and Deer, I am no rocket scientist but I would say if we weren't allowed to draw multiple tags in a year the chances of getting draw would go up...... something to think about, more tags left on the table. We cant blame our fellow hunters for trying to take advantage of the system that has been dealt to us. all we can do is try to get the most out of it, and right now I feel that it is inefficient and wasteful, only putting money in the pocket for WDFW  Supprise!!!!