Cougars good or bad for the Cleman Mtn sheep herd?

[yakimanoob]

Hey all, I live on the hill opposite Cleman Mtn and have been enjoying easy sheep sightings this winter at/near the feeding station off Old Naches Rd. My neighbor, a long-time friend and volunteer of the DFW in the area, mentioned going on a hike a few days ago and finding 5 dead sheep, 2 at least were obvious cougar kills. 

I'll be up front that I'm new to hunting in general, and I'm immensely impressed by the grace and beauty of cougars and thus haven't considered hunting them until now.  I'm not the kinda guy who by nature wants to hunt predators (not that I in any way judge those who do. To each their own).  My interest is more in meat hunting, so my real concern is seeing the bighorns recover to the point that getting a chance to hunt them in WA isn't a once-in-a-lifetime lottery draw.

I recognize that predation can be a positive force for the health of a herd, BUT if the cougars on Cleman Mtn are putting too much pressure on the sheep, I'd welcome the challenge of hunting them.

What do y'all think?  I'd especially love to hear from someone involved with the mgmt of that sheep herd. 

[JimmyHoffa]

Might consider cougar for meat hunting too.

[yakimanoob]

Might consider cougar for meat hunting too.

I have to confess I hadn't thought of that, although if I got one my curiosity would get the best of me and I'd try it.  Now to google to learn more about eating cougar meat...

[bobcat]

Contact the WDFW biologist over there- Jeff Bernatowicz. Ive talked to him a few times. He's friendly and very helpful.

You can find his contact info here:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/wildlife_district_bios.pdf

[bearpaw]

Once cats figure out that a place attracts game they can really do some damage. You will be doing the sheep a favor if you can get one of those cats that is targeting the feeding area.

FYI - Some of my best deer and elk hunting spots I have found when I am hunting cougar. The cats know where the best hunting spots are all at!

[carpsniperg2]

  For sure very seldom do I find a area the elk have been using without finding lion tracks. We have a serious cat problem When we can go from wintering 500+ deer on our ranch to maybe 100-120 and 2/3 lions at any given time. Things are getting bad

[yakimanoob]

The "official" response is in from DFW:

"Reality is that cats kill few if any bighorn sheep in this area."  The biologist said the Clemans sheep herd is "almost too healthy" and they've relocated over 200 of them to other areas, and will be increasing the number of ewe tags this year  to help control the population. 

He said "hunting is very unlikely to have any impact on cat populations," so if that's what you're into, hunt away! 

[Elkcollector82]

The "official" response is in from DFW:

"Reality is that cats kill few if any bighorn sheep in this area."  The biologist said the Clemans sheep herd is "almost too healthy" and they've relocated over 200 of them to other areas, and will be increasing the number of ewe tags this year  to help control the population. 

He said "hunting is very unlikely to have any impact on cat populations," so if that's what you're into, hunt away! 

If hunting cats don't have any impact on their population, then why do they have a quota? 

[yakimanoob]

That was my first thought too, Elkcollector.  I guess just to make SURE it doesn't have an effect on the population? 

[garrett89]

They're really gutsy when it comes to exiting the woods. Not nearly as bad as wolves. Never heard of a cougar killing for sport.

[Elkcollector82]

They're really gutsy when it comes to exiting the woods. Not nearly as bad as wolves. Never heard of a cougar killing for sport.

I agree. Can't compare a cougar to wolf. Cougars take what they need. Problem is they are over populated. So you see a result in that. Now the wolfs are starting to populate and the amount that we have does a huge impact on animals. Killing for sport and/or food.  Just imagine the impact on the animals once the wolfs reach a unmanageable number.

I guess once the wolfs move into down town Olympia/Seattle the people Will finally see what we have been saying all along. 

[bobcat]

The "official" response is in from DFW:

"Reality is that cats kill few if any bighorn sheep in this area."  The biologist said the Clemans sheep herd is "almost too healthy" and they've relocated over 200 of them to other areas, and will be increasing the number of ewe tags this year  to help control the population. 

He said "hunting is very unlikely to have any impact on cat populations," so if that's what you're into, hunt away!

I'm surprised that's the response you got because a few years ago I got the exact opposite information from a WDFW biologist. He encouraged me to try to kill a cougar on Clemans Mountain as they were having a negative impact on the bighorn sheep.

[Special T]

And some people wonder why WDFW has a bad reputation...

[idaho guy]

Kill the cougars if you can and help the sheep. Sounds like you already found at least two lion kills maybe more? That's your answer on if they are hurting the sheep population don't worry about what wdfw says.

[idaho guy]

Cougar meat is good also so you will still be meat hunting and saving a few critters as well!

[Cougartail]

That unit met objectives on Jan 17 and is now closed. Dinner is served..

[Elkcollector82]

That unit met objectives on Jan 17 and is now closed. Dinner is served..

 
Really wish Washington would hand out additional cougar tags.

[str8meat]

the average age of cougars in yakima county that have been harvested in the past 3 years is 22-24 month. so the quota is being filled by the juveniles while the adults resume their ways. youth cougars are being killed because they are being kicked out of their parents territories. hence why they are easily killed along roads and near towns. they are looking for food so when the sheep come down on mt. clemens yes your correct dinner is served. another mismanagement practice of the bios at the department of fish and wildlife.

[idaho guy]

That unit met objectives on Jan 17 and is now closed. Dinner is served..

 
Really wish Washington would hand out additional cougar tags.

That unit met objectives on Jan 17 and is now closed. Dinner is served..

 
Really wish Washington would hand out additional cougar tags.
[/quote.





Wow 5 dead sheep and units closed to protect lions? Thanks for the info cougar tail  beating a dead horse but Washington needs to quit protecting predators get em next year yakimanoob

[Elkcollector82]

That unit met objectives on Jan 17 and is now closed. Dinner is served..

 
Really wish Washington would hand out additional cougar tags.

That unit met objectives on Jan 17 and is now closed. Dinner is served..

 
Really wish Washington would hand out additional cougar tags.
[/quote.





Wow 5 dead sheep and units closed to protect lions? Thanks for the info cougar tail  beating a dead horse but Washington needs to quit protecting predators get em next year yakimanoob

WDFW will never stop protecting predators. 

[Karl Blanchard]

Predators hunt to eat.  We hunt to eat.  It's been going on since the beginning of time.  Like the bio said, that area is pushing max capacity so it's not a huge travesty if a few become dinner.  You've got sheep up there dying of old age.  I'm by no means a predator lover but it's all part of the balance.  Carps area is just nuts down there though.  Where I used to see hundreds of deer during spring turkey I now see just a handful.  Cat sightings annually. 

Honestly why is there even a quota on cougars though?  Can't bait, can't run em with hounds.  Does fur and fins really think the fox pro masses are gonna even put a dent in their numbers

[idaho guy]

You are right Washington state needs to bring back hounds that's the issue huntwa should get together on. I think a lot of the cats we treed this year in Idaho were just overflow coming out of Washington caught a lot more in Idaho close to the border in Idaho and less the closer to the middle of the panhandle.

[Elkcollector82]

You are right Washington state needs to bring back hounds that's the issue huntwa should get together on. I think a lot of the cats we treed this year in Idaho were just overflow coming out of Washington caught a lot more in Idaho close to the border in Idaho and less the closer to the middle of the panhandle.

You have my vote. 

[idaho guy]

You are right Washington state needs to bring back hounds that's the issue huntwa should get together on. I think a lot of the cats we treed this year in Idaho were just overflow coming out of Washington caught a lot more in Idaho close to the border in Idaho and less the closer to the middle of the panhandle.

You have my vote. 


M

[idaho guy]

I actually like mountain lions and regularly let females small toms go in Idaho where cats are hunted to death so I am not against lions at all. Washington is just completely over run with them and every other predator you need hounds back! I think that is the one thing hunt wa could get behind as a group to help your deer and elk

[Elkcollector82]

I actually like mountain lions and regularly let females small toms go in Idaho where cats are hunted to death so I am not against lions at all. Washington is just completely over run with them and every other predator you need hounds back! I think that is the one thing hunt wa could get behind as a group to help your deer and elk

Couldn't agree more. If people were to run cats or bears with dogs or use baits. You could let the younger predators/females. You could actually take a big Tom or big bore. The elk/deer would strive back to the population it was 25+ years.
  Just my 

[idaho guy]

I actually like mountain lions and regularly let females small toms go in Idaho where cats are hunted to death so I am not against lions at all. Washington is just completely over run with them and every other predator you need hounds back! I think that is the one thing hunt wa could get behind as a group to help your deer and elk

 

Couldn't agree more. If people were to run cats or bears with dogs or use baits. You could let the younger predators/females. You could actually take a big Tom or big bore. The elk/deer would strive back to the population it was 25+ years.
  Just my 

 :tup:you could be the guy to push for hound hunting I think this forum could be the place hunters come together to get houndoggers back controlling predators the right way. I will have your back on this but being a non resident makes my voice less important I think. I read posts all the time complaining about the predator pit in Washington and I totally agree but hunt wa needs to take a stand TOGETHER and hounds would be the best first step bring back hounds! And include Idaho guys ha ha

[Naches Sportsman]

I know the guy who watched this one get killed by a cougar. He is still up there in one of my favorite draws. Horns rotting away.

[idaho guy]

I know the guy who watched this one get killed by a cougar. He is still up there in one of my favorite draws. Horns rotting away.

Too bad you have to leave the horns to rot wonder why wdfw thinks lions aren't a problem seems like lots of evidence to the contrary

[Elkcollector82]

I actually like mountain lions and regularly let females small toms go in Idaho where cats are hunted to death so I am not against lions at all. Washington is just completely over run with them and every other predator you need hounds back! I think that is the one thing hunt wa could get behind as a group to help your deer and elk

 

Couldn't agree more. If people were to run cats or bears with dogs or use baits. You could let the younger predators/females. You could actually take a big Tom or big bore. The elk/deer would strive back to the population it was 25+ years.
  Just my 

 :tup:you could be the guy to push for hound hunting I think this forum could be the place hunters come together to get houndoggers back controlling predators the right way. I will have your back on this but being a non resident makes my voice less important I think. I read posts all the time complaining about the predator pit in Washington and I totally agree but hunt wa needs to take a stand TOGETHER and hounds would be the best first step bring back hounds! And include Idaho guys ha ha

Started a poll in virtual board. See if it's even possible/worth the time.

[idaho guy]

Great  let's see lots of complainers will they do something? I think they will 👍🏿