mt goat gender ID test/helpfull info

[RB]

Agreed RB.  It sure should be with minimal effort.  Pretty amazing how many nannies have been killed in our region the past few years.  A couple of them I know were mistakes but wonder if the others simply didn't know or didn't care...  Either way it's a personal decision but definitely affects the management of a fragile species when harvest data is entered...

Someone sees a goat and has a OIL tag in their pocket and just wants to fill it. Sees a goat, sees big horns, gets excited, doesn't want to risk losing the shot opportunity, don't care if it's a nanny or a billy as long as they fill their tag, greed, etc.

This Nanny I believe was actually bigger than the Billy I shot, both in horn length and body size, but even if this was the only goat seen I would not shoot it even though by the book I can. It is a personal choice even after waiting over 20 years to get the tag. Yes I understand there are times a guy just does not have the time to set up a scope and watch to make 100% due to terrain and other factors, but it is better for the overall good of the herd to do the best to identify a Billy/Nanny.

[jackelope]

I think it's not too uncommon for mature nanny goats to have longer horns than some billies. The mass is where the difference is.
Might be wrong there. There have been some nanny pics posted on here with some real long horns.

[j_h_nimrod]

I think it's not too uncommon for mature nanny goats to have longer horns than some billies. The mass is where the difference is.
Might be wrong there. There have been some nanny pics posted on here with some real long horns.

It is fairly common, I have seen (put tape on ) a few nannies with horns over 11" and heard of some in the 12" range.

[Buzz2401]

Make it Billy only but if you do actually shoot a nanny you just lose a certain amount of points towards other tags you have been putting in for.  Say maybe you lose 4 points across the spectrum.  That way there is incentive to not shoot nannies yet you aren't crucifying a guy who makes a mistake or just can't find a billy.

[Tbar]

Make it Billy only but if you do actually shoot a nanny you just lose a certain amount of points towards other tags you have been putting in for.  Say maybe you lose 4 points across the spectrum.  That way there is incentive to not shoot nannies yet you aren't crucifying a guy who makes a mistake or just can't find a billy.

It's just not that easy.  A Billy only season is not feasible for a number of reasons.  In some cases the shooting of a nanny is (and should) be celebrated. Taking points or punishing someone would not change things. In a perfect world one would train accordingly  (some do), educate themselves (some do), and pay close attention to conservation  (again some do). Many do none of the above however! The quota with assigned points is loosely in play, that model makes sense. 
The reality is goats live in the most brutal environment in our region. This is not for everyone but anyone can draw a tag.  To me sharing the air with these majestic creatures is always worth the price of admission. That said with the reality of likelihood of drawing, actually the likelihood of not drawing is the reality.  When many people draw they are well past their prime and have paid their dues many times over.  Should we discount or punish someone a generation or two older?  There are many factors that would be wrong to generalize or judge (that is just one example).

All that said, far too many nannies are being harvested unnecessarily! Although it may not ever be something besides an oil tag, people are losing opportunity.  This thread is an excellent example of what we need.  Education of tag holders on both conservation and identification will more than likely have the desired effect of expanded opportunity.  If tag holders are aware of the residual effects of nanny harvest I really feel the majority would do their due diligence to target Billy's. This still would not eliminate nanny harvest but something more than a permit packet with literature would be nice.

[Buzz2401]

That's why I thought the point deduction was kind of a good idea then they have the choice and the consequences aren't really that bad.  Honestly with the lottery system that are point system is it wouldn't really change anyones odds much besides perception of a better chance.

[j_h_nimrod]

Make it Billy only but if you do actually shoot a nanny you just lose a certain amount of points towards other tags you have been putting in for.  Say maybe you lose 4 points across the spectrum.  That way there is incentive to not shoot nannies yet you aren't crucifying a guy who makes a mistake or just can't find a billy.

It's just not that easy.  A Billy only season is not feasible for a number of reasons.  In some cases the shooting of a nanny is (and should) be celebrated. Taking points or punishing someone would not change things. In a perfect world one would train accordingly  (some do), educate themselves (some do), and pay close attention to conservation  (again some do). Many do none of the above however! The quota with assigned points is loosely in play, that model makes sense. 
The reality is goats live in the most brutal environment in our region. This is not for everyone but anyone can draw a tag.  To me sharing the air with these majestic creatures is always worth the price of admission. That said with the reality of likelihood of drawing, actually the likelihood of not drawing is the reality.  When many people draw they are well past their prime and have paid their dues many times over.  Should we discount or punish someone a generation or two older?  There are many factors that would be wrong to generalize or judge (that is just one example).

All that said, far too many nannies are being harvested unnecessarily! Although it may not ever be something besides an oil tag, people are losing opportunity.  This thread is an excellent example of what we need.  Education of tag holders on both conservation and identification will more than likely have the desired effect of expanded opportunity.  If tag holders are eaware of the residual effects of nanny harvest I really feel the majority would do their due diligence to target Billy's. This still would not eliminate nanny harvest but something more than a permit packet with literature would be nice.

This is just not so, there is no incentive other than moral superiority to not harvest a nanny. Especially when nannys taste so much better than most Billy's!

Also consider that there is an annual total number of tags less than 1% of the total population. Regardless of what the statisticians say, the minuscule nanny harvest is not a real factor in the population growth and dynamics of the species in WA state. There are much more crucial considerations for population growth in goat populations.

[Tbar]

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=goatidentification.harvestmales
JH I'm not trying to argue. There is no intended moral superiority either from me.  The reality is nanny harvest is a factor in tag allocations, period.  If, and I emphasize if,  there is a push for a higher harvest rate (4% is sustainable)  there has to be a heavily weighted history of responsible billy harvest. 

[shanevg]

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=goatidentification.harvestmales
JH I'm not trying to argue. There is no intended moral superiority either from me.  The reality is nanny harvest is a factor in tag allocations, period.  If, and I emphasize if,  there is a push for a higher harvest rate (4% is sustainable)  there has to be a heavily weighted history of responsible billy harvest.

 

One thing a lot of people aren't aware of is that nannies have higher reproductive rates the older they get.  Most nannies are not reproducing until age 4 or 5 and can and do successfully reproduce until age 12-14.  I see posts of hunters who shoot nannies saying they shot a "dry nanny" when in reality that more than likely means they shot a young nanny which is even worse for the population.

[White Pass Outfitters]

Go with an outfitter, best chance of getting the best Billy out of your tag. Just my opinion.