Idea to fix WA elk hunting.

[Roperfive88]

Yep, WA has creep but it is just hidden a bit better due to the sheer number of people.

Think of it like this, if you buy 10 powerball tickets, you get a better chance (on paper) than some guy who buys one ticket. Look at the draw results and see the huge number of people with the most points that get an invitation to the loser's lounge.

Points creep has to do with the preference point system and the amount of points needed to guarantee you draw. For example a buddies father in law in Oregon has been one be hind that guaranteed number for ten years now. Points creep is the creep of that guaranteed number. The percentages every one talks about are such a small difference from point to point that we really are not that much advantage. when there are so many people applying for tags. Is 2% chance of drawing really that much better then 1% its still a long shot. If it was Idaho system your still looking at a 1% chase of drawing most premier permits across the board. Like bobcat said its a lottery and there are not enough elk for every one to draw in a life time.

[Stein]

Yep, WA has creep but it is just hidden a bit better due to the sheer number of people.

Think of it like this, if you buy 10 powerball tickets, you get a better chance (on paper) than some guy who buys one ticket. Look at the draw results and see the huge number of people with the most points that get an invitation to the loser's lounge.

Points creep has to do with the preference point system and the amount of points needed to guarantee you draw. For example a buddies father in law in Oregon has been one be hind that guaranteed number for ten years now. Points creep is the creep of that guaranteed number. The percentages every one talks about are such a small difference from point to point that we really are not that much advantage. when there are so many people applying for tags. Is 2% chance of drawing really that much better then 1% its still a long shot. If it was Idaho system your still looking at a 1% chase of drawing most premier permits across the board. Like bobcat said its a lottery and there are not enough elk for every one to draw in a life time.

Agreed, there are various definitions of point creep depending on the state.  In WA, you aren't guaranteed anything, so point creep is the number of points the average person had that drew the tag.  In all states, the problem is that those with the most points don't all get tags and thus they have one more point next year, and one more the year after.  Thus, those with fewer points will always have fewer points.

We should all treat it as what it is, a lottery that a few lucky people will win.  For some reason, we think that we will all get one sometime, and that just isn't the case.  Hunt the general tag and be surprised if you draw something else, but don't expect it.

[bobcat]

Thus the common question often seen on here: "how many points does it take" for such and such hunt? 

It's an impossible question to answer. But I think many people do believe that once you get to a certain number of points, you WILL draw. But that's just not the case.

I will say, as I've often said before, I think we should have waiting periods for those who do draw. Just like Idaho has. I think it's only one year. I think we should have a two year waiting period at least for the quality hunts.

[bighorn1]

Maybe if we did it like Idaho and payed a couple thousand to be in the drawing like they do for Moose the draw odds might be better. So maybe we should be satisfied with what we have and just hope we might get lucky.

[Jpmiller]

I could get behind a waiting period after a suvvesgul draw for the tags. I used to draw a cow tag almost every year for 336 when they gave out a gazillion every year so it would be a bummer to see that go (not getting a good feeling about drawing one of the 35 tags this year though) but that sounds fair to me without swinging too far the other way.

[ian_padron]

I agree but there are tons of other great tags besides the clockums and blues.  Success rate would jump for first two years then fall right back to where it is now and the overall quality would drop.  Your system is almost to the tee what we used to have before 1996 I believe was the year.

If I remember correctly antler restrictions were absent from the years prior to 1996. I think the real big difference would be the regions. If you want to put in for the blues you have to hunt the blues. Not get skunked in the drawing and then come back to the clockum.

I think it would greatly increase draw odds for those who wanted to chase trophy elk . Offer more rut hunts. And weed out people who apply in everything because they can.
I don't think overall it would hurt the mature bull elk population but maybe not see them next to the road.

I keep coming back in my mind that the success rates switching to branch antler bulls would be a bit higher or the same if you stopped shooting yearlings.

I agree with choosing a region and having to hunt it.

I also think that all wilderness areas should be their own separate "region" and open for rifle hunting. The number of outfitter drop camps should be limited to avoid the recent trend in showing up at a basin 10 miles in and seeing a tent-city full of city slickers that couldn't make their way into the backcountry without a pack train. That way, guys that are willing to put in the work and actually know where the animals are will have a better shot at drilling a bull.

No way in hell the truck and tree stand hunting twats from the Colockum, Manastash, Naneum, etc. are showing up back there haha!

[Antlershed]

Not saying this is a solution, but thought I would throw it out for discussion...

What impact would it have on draw odds if we changed the way your hunt choices worked? Everyone still gets assigned their random number, but what if they only ran thru everyone's first choices, then, in the same order, ran thru everyone's second choice, and so on... what it really comes down to, is Should person A be able to draw a hunt as his 4th choice that person B has down as a first choice? Again, I'm not even sure how I feel about the idea, but thought I'd toss it out.

[huntnnw]

Maybe if we did it like Idaho and payed a couple thousand to be in the drawing like they do for Moose the draw odds might be better. So maybe we should be satisfied with what we have and just hope we might get lucky.

ID residents do not pay thousands tho. ID system does improve odds dramatically . And how it should be in WA . You pick either bucks and bulls or 1 OIL specie to apply for and front your tag fee. Will never happen in money hungry WA

[eliandsky]

The funny thing with this thread is everyone posting is trying to figure out how to get a successful draw in some capacity when the real problem as identified by multiple posts cant be fixed  ..............(To little elk to many hunters)

At least the system gives everyone a chance.  And for those of you putting in for rifle tags that only have 1-2-3 tags dont complain mathematically its may or may not ever happen for you. 

Or go to straight lottery like ID so its fair across the board and less to complain about. 

At least the guys with 10-15-23 points do actually have a better chance. 

[rtspring]

750,000 people  hunting 45,000 elk!!!   There is no solution, play the game or hunt elsewhere

[Stein]

Maybe if we did it like Idaho and payed a couple thousand to be in the drawing like they do for Moose the draw odds might be better. So maybe we should be satisfied with what we have and just hope we might get lucky.

ID residents do not pay thousands tho. ID system does improve odds dramatically . And how it should be in WA . You pick either bucks and bulls or 1 OIL specie to apply for and front your tag fee. Will never happen in money hungry WA

WA uses the special permit application money to gain access to private land to increase hunting opportunity.  It doesn't come free.

Comparing WA to ID doesn't solve much, the numbers are so different that what works there wouldn't work here.

[rosscrazyelk]

Isn't that how it used to be.
I am pretty sure you had to select West side, blues, Yakima, clockum and if you didn't draw you still had to hunt that region.
?
Anyway there is to much money in it now, it would never happen. They want quantity not quality.

[bearpaw]

I think these are the harsh realities!

 - WDFW is not going to take less money, it's just not going to happen, they actually want more money
 - Green groups are more and more in control of WDFW resulting in less and less predator management
 - More predators need more to eat, they are not vegans, the result is fewer elk & deer
 - No matter how much money you throw at WDFW it cannot result in more deer/elk if they are being eaten by predators
 - No matter what system you use to distribute tags, if there are less elk/deer there has to be less hunter opportunity!

Think about it!

I will concede that fewer hunters will likely mean more older bulls, but that means less opportunity for everyone each year if you cut back bull harvest!

[Nice Racks]

Go the alphabet way.  Everyone who has their last name that starts with an A,C,E,G,I,K,M,O, Q, S,U,W,Y gets to put in for a permit hunt on even # years, and those who don't get odd years. Everyone gets to hunt the general seeasons.

[Roperfive88]

Go the alphabet way.  Everyone who has their last name that starts with an A,C,E,G,I,K,M,O, Q, S,U,W,Y gets to put in for a permit hunt on even # years, and those who don't get odd years. Everyone gets to hunt the general seeasons.

You just reduced everyone's odds. Now there are half as may tags you can draw in your lifetime.This just doubles your odds from 1% every year to 2% every other year. This is just another smoke and mirrors idea to get people to believe they have better odds but they don't. Just like points. like has been posted above tom many hunters and not enough elk.