Meeting with the WDFW this week on goat tags!

[norsepeak]

I've got another meeting this week with the game dept. to discuss the proposed cutting of all the goat tags on Chinook/White pass for 2009-11.  They are using a goat harvest/population density model from Alberta to manage the goats here, so we are going to discuss the model, and their survey process and results.  The goal is to enlighten them to the actual population, and hoplefully at a minimum get the tags that they are wanting to cut re-instated.  I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.  On a side note, today was way up on the hill and saw two nice billies in the snow.  One was huge, could be the next state record.

[gasman]

I WISH YOU THE BEST, SO GOOD LUCK....................

[sagerat]

Wow, that's very cool. All I can say is thanks! I hope they can see the light.

[ponyboy156]

A few years ago i was on a wilderness trail crew in the norse peek area. went in through bear gap and came out crow creek way to ravens roost. in lake basin we ran into a couple wdfw biologists attempting to tag a goat. They had a couple of volunteers helping them pack in equipment for a weeks worth of goat chasin. They were having waaaaaay too much fun to be getting paid for it. Man am I in the wrong line of work! In twelve weeks  and 250 miles of backcountry trails through the goat rocks, willy o, and norse peek we saw at least a hundred goats. At least a handful every week. Hard to believe there cutting all the tags up there.

[blacktailer]

Hey norsepeak, good luck with that meeting.  I am real curious how the heck the tags in my area up here (Mt. Baker Region) are going to work with all of the "sub-units" that have been proposed.    I have always been a skeptic when it comes to the population density of goats in our area and how the numbers are derived.  If I recall correctly, they used to give out close to 50 tags in this area for years.   Then, without warning, they cut it off completely.  The last couple of years they gave out a total of 2 tags up here, and the new proposals have a few more.  You mentioned you are going to enlighten them on actual numbers and densities.    How are you getting your numbers??? 

[billythekidrock]

Good luck and keep us posted.

[norsepeak]

blacktailer, my number are from personal observation and record keeping over the last 15 years.  I'm lucky enough to spend around 200+ days a year in the mtns. so I keep a pretty good eye on the goats on Chinook.

[bankwalker]

im gonna pick up a gsp this season. and i will start keeping records of goats i see. time/date/mountain or ridge/how many goats.

im constantly keeping my eye open for them. like i said in a previous post. i see goats every single day in the cooper lake area. i spent alot of time up there this year and getting to see that many goats was awesome.

if the population is that high in that area. i could only imagine the population where they give out permits.

[ramslam]

First I want to say thank you to Norse for all your effort.  Its easy to get on here and bash WDFW but the bottom line is if you do not get involved and spend the effort to help make changes then I think you lose the right to complain.

For what its worth here is the detailed 'survey' from my goat hunt in Naches/CP in 2005.  I have spent a few years doing bighorn surveys in years past in Hells Canyon so I kinda understand how the system works.  I dont know how well this will copy and paste. 

Good luck and thanks again for all your hard work.

Glen

Date   Location   Unknown Adults   M. Adults   F. Adults   Kids   Total
17-Sep   Pinus Ck      1   2   1   4
   N. of Pinus Ck         3   4   7
18-Sep   Raven's Roost               
24-Sep   S. side of Castle Mtn      2         2
   Upper Greenwater River      1         1
   Upper Goat Ck.   12   one adult had a radio collar      6   18
25-Sep   Pinus Ck      1*   2   2   
8-Oct   N. of Hayden Pass      1*         
   N. of Reese Lake      1*         
   N. side of upper Greenwater River      2   6*   3*   2
   NW of Corral Pass Campground   5         2   7
9-Oct   SW of Matinson Gap      1   1   1   3
   Lake Basin         2   2   4
   Lake Basin      2   3   3   8
15-Oct   Pinus Ck      2*         
   N. Side of Fife's Ridge at Wilderness Boundary      1         1
   NW side of Fife's Ridge near Pinus Ck   4*         4*   
16-Oct   Pinus Ck      1*         
   Pinus Ck         1*   1*   
22-Oct   NW end of Fife's Ridge near Pinus Ck   one female had a blue radio collar      4   4   8
   Upper N. side of Fall's Ck         3   2   5
   Fife's Peak      5         5
   NW side of Fife's Ridge near Pinus Ck      2*         
   SW side of Fife's Ridge near Pinus Ck      1         1
23-Oct   Pinus Ck         2*   2*   
   SW side of Fife's Ridge near Pinus Ck**      1*         
   TOTAL   17   16   20   27   76

   * I believe these are the same goats spotted on different trips and are not included in the total.               
   **Billy harvested               

[ramslam]

Oh man that's a mess. 

[Huckleberry]

Blacktailer ~ Part of the thing with the subunits has to do with tag allocation. More small subunits in our area is probably better than one large unit with 2+ tags. In any unit with 2+ tags the governors tag holder and the raffle tag holder can hunt. I believe the natives can as well (though perhaps they can hunt anywhere). That means if the state made a large unit and wanted 2 tags potentially 4 goats could be harvested. Many of our areas can sustain 2 goats being harvested but not 4. Thus small 1 goat subunits is a better option.

[shanevg]

Blacktailer ~ Part of the thing with the subunits has to do with tag allocation. More small subunits in our area is probably better than one large unit with 2+ tags. In any unit with 2+ tags the governors tag holder and the raffle tag holder can hunt. I believe the natives can as well (though perhaps they can hunt anywhere). That means if the state made a large unit and wanted 2 tags potentially 4 goats could be harvested. Many of our areas can sustain 2 goats being harvested but not 4. Thus small 1 goat subunits is a better option.

That's totally fine as long as they manage it the same as they manage all the other sub units in our state.  But I am confused by the way the proposal reads.  It sounds like you will draw for the "Mt. Baker Region" and then you can hunt wherever you want, but after a certain amount are killed in any given unit, they will shut that section of the region down.  Sounds like crap to me, it will encourage hunters to harvest their goats early and therefore cause WDFW to dictate where hunters must hunt.  This wouldn't be fair because some of those units, would be relatively easy hunting for a 65 year old, where others may be near impossible for some hunters.  I don't care how many subunits there are, as long as you get to choose what unit you are hunting.  I do think you should only have one or two choices for where to hunt when you apply for goats since there are so few units anyways.  That would limit the number of hunters per choice and increase everyone's odds.