I love wolves. Seriously.

[Duckslayer89]

The moose looks like it is being eaten alive...Gotta love those wolves

Likely every wolf in that picture is now dead.

And every moose in pic as well

Actually the moose population has rebounded exponentially, and all but 2 of the wolves on the island are dead as of this past winter.
(That's an old photo from Isle Royale on Lake Superior)
http://www.isleroyalewolf.org/sites/default/files/annual-report-pdf/Annual%20Report%202016-2017_0.pdf

Every moose IN PIC

Sarcasm/joke

[kentrek]

Here's an example of the wilderness area taking over.....wilderness is everything in blue.... so like I asked....whose more important ??

dark green is wilderness too

Dark green is parks....which we can't hunt

[nwwanderer]

As soon as they have the same status as a coyote and the state stops throwing money at them, even I might have a change of heart

[ribka]

Why would wolves do this?

Were they bored? Conducting scientific research?

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/08/two-wolves-kill-176-sheep-1-night-near-idaho-falls

Each wolf killed over 85 sheep and just leaves them

Hi would you describe this behavior?

There many other well documented high number kills of live stock  and deer by wolves where they did not bother to eat anything

A very common myth perpetrated by the pro wolf urban crowd is that wolves only kill sick and weak animals and therefore help strengthen elk deer and mooses populations. Wolves are one of the few predators that do thrill kills and leave untouched carcasses sometimes in the dozens. What other apex predator kills dozens of animals and just leaves them? I don't know of any. I have seen first hand slaughter of deer and untouched bodies in the Clearwater unit in Idaho

Go to get facts out there

"Thrill kills"?  Isn't that the definition of anthropomorphism?    How do we know if they get any thrill out of it? 

I don't know why they do it.  All I know are the facts.  I.e., that killing happens, all over nature, and something the predator eats the whole thing right there and sometimes they don't.

[yakimanoob]

To me, this thread and the resulting comments are more about people labeling others just because of differing views. Some hate wolves, some don't mind them and some love them. If you're not in the wolf haters club, you're labeled a lover. It happens. It's happened to me. It's happened to the guy who started this thread and now it's going to happen to the guy from WI.
 
That is unfortunate.

My thoughts exactly. 

[yakimanoob]

Why would wolves do this?

Were they bored? Conducting scientific research?

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/08/two-wolves-kill-176-sheep-1-night-near-idaho-falls

Each wolf killed over 85 sheep and just leaves them

Hi would you describe this behavior?

There many other well documented high number kills of live stock  and deer by wolves where they did not bother to eat anything

A very common myth perpetrated by the pro wolf urban crowd is that wolves only kill sick and weak animals and therefore help strengthen elk deer and mooses populations. Wolves are one of the few predators that do thrill kills and leave untouched carcasses sometimes in the dozens. What other apex predator kills dozens of animals and just leaves them? I don't know of any. I have seen first hand slaughter of deer and untouched bodies in the Clearwater unit in Idaho

Go to get facts out there

"Thrill kills"?  Isn't that the definition of anthropomorphism?    How do we know if they get any thrill out of it? 

I don't know why they do it.  All I know are the facts.  I.e., that killing happens, all over nature, and something the predator eats the whole thing right there and sometimes they don't.

Why an animal does something is a very interesting question for behavior scientists.  But yes, assuming wolves do it for the thrill is anthropomorphizing them.  Hating or loving them is not.

I really, really love cookies.  If you sub cookies in for wolves in KFHunter's argument, you sound insane. 

[yakimanoob]

Yakimanoob what have you got to say?

I'm back to that extreme grief and unfettered rage thing, just aimed at wolves this time. 

[yakimanoob]

Yakimanoob what have you got to say?

I'm back to that extreme grief and unfettered rage thing, just aimed at wolves this time.

But my knee-jerk smart-assery aside, I'm not sure if you're asking me a legitimate question.  If you are, please clarify what you'd like to know and I'd be glad to answer to the best of my ability.

[Skyvalhunter]

Yakimanoob you say you love wolves. You have heard a lot of reasons why some of the hunters have a dislike for them. Mainly because it severely curtails hunting opportunities. Tell us why you love this creature as stated. Do you not feel a threat to you right to hunt or your chance of harvesting an animal? When you create such a controversial topic on a hunting forum you have to expect a backlash. It might not have such a hot button as if you said I love grizzlies, seriously. I think you will find that if you were a serious hunter that hunts multiple states there is going to be opposition to your view because of the jeopardy to serious hunters resource.

[Gringo31]

I have the same view on wolves as Syrian refugees.  Keep them out because I like what we have here and would like to keep it that way


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[wolfbait]

As for wolves I've already stated that I have no hate, love or any other human emotions ascribed to them.  I'm against Anthropomorphism, humanizing animals, because then management is based on emotion rather than science.  Which is exactly what we have in WA.

   Which is why I shake my head every time someone posts wolf kill pics.  Doing nothing other than trying to stir an emotional response, exactly the same thing as wolf puppy pictures.  By nature, wolves kill other animals, just like a lot of other animals.  Sometimes they eat them, sometimes they don't.  Happens everywhere else in nature too.  I think our arguments for scientific management are stronger if we actually stick to the science ourselves.

The "science" end of the wolf introduction is like the Paris climate agreement. The illegal introduction was never about saving/replacing a wolf species etc. but instead the agenda of using an apex predator to tip the scales enough to end hunting and ruin livestock grazing on public lands.

The pictures I posted are exactly the outcome of the introduced wolves and the reason behind the introduction. No emotion, just the facts!

The science argument is just BS cover for environmentalists etc..

[yakimanoob]

Yakimanoob you say you love wolves. You have heard a lot of reasons why some of the hunters have a dislike for them. Mainly because it severely curtails hunting opportunities. Tell us why you love this creature as stated. Do you not feel a threat to you right to hunt or your chance of harvesting an animal? When you create such a controversial topic on a hunting forum you have to expect a backlash. It might not have such a hot button as if you said I love grizzlies, seriously. I think you will find that if you were a serious hunter that hunts multiple states there is going to be opposition to your view because of the jeopardy to serious hunters resource.

I will say again that I have never challenged the idea that they're a threat to hunting opportunities.  I love them because they're amazing, intelligent creatures.  But that doesn't mean I think they should be in Washington or that there should be more of them in Washington or that they should be protected as endangered.  Again, my goal in posting the question was to learn why people seem to hate the animals themselves.  I'm not nearly educated enough on the topic to debate their presence in our state. 

If you're curious, I'm learning two major points by reading through the responses here:

1) There is a tremendous amount of political anger and offense at how these animals were re-introduced and are managed.  I'm struck by the comments calling the introduction illegal and the idea of this being part of a larger anti-hunting agenda.  It's not hard for me to see how easy it must be for people in Washington to go from feeling slighted, or maybe even abused, by their own government to hating the creatures at the center of that abuse.  I'm also learning that those who actually hate the wolves themselves are definitely the minority, and I only got the impression people hate the creatures because of the intensity of the anger over the situation. 

2) It seems the overall quality of conversation about the subject has degenerated to the level typical of political conversations today.  Those who disagree with you must be idiots or have some sinister motive that threatens your lifestyle.  Anyone who doesn't automatically agree with you must be your enemy and you'd rather them not speak.  I'm still chuckling at the comment about needing smacked upside the head and having my nose shoved in the mud, as if that would result in me seeing your side of the argument.  Banning people from the forum, accusing them of being dishonest, or otherwise lashing back at them is, if nothing else, an exceptionally ineffective way of convincing someone that they should change their mind.  That's the way you make enemies, not allies. 

And this is what seems the highest shame of this thread.  I'm a hunter and I'd like to see our rights and opportunities protected.  But we live in a republic, and the only hope we have to protect our rights is to ensure we have enough popular support to maintain those rights.  The minute we offend the majority is the minute we forfeit our rights.  So please, quit picking fights with people who disagree with you, and work to bridge the gap instead of widening it. 

[yakimanoob]

As a side note, I can't help but mention the irony in showing me pictures of wolf kills as if it's evidence that wolves should be banned. 

That's the exact same tactic used by the anti-hunting crowd: they post photos of a gutted and half-butchered animal and accuse us all of being savages who should be banned. 

[KFhunter]

Maybe it's just an oversight by some wilderness pushers? Some I know don't care, but removing roads really puts all hunters with any type of physical restriction at a significant disadvantage. I'm not saying we need to start making new roads, let's just stop taking access away from people. There are 22 wilderness areas in Washington, that is enough! We have countless other unroaded areas that also provide many opportunities to get away from the road system.

FYI - My business would benefit by removing roads, more people would need pack in services, but I don't beleive it's right to take away access from the majority of the public users! 

How much packing business do you do?
How much of your hunting in this state is done on public land? I realize you probably don't have an exact ratio, but would you say half or 3/4 or 1/4 of your outfitting is done on public land?
The map that Kentrek provided makes a clear and concise statement on the amount of wilderness areas in this state. There may be 22 wilderness areas in this state but how many of those are of any significance in size? How many of those 22 are just one connected to another? Think the Henry M Jackson Wilderness and the Wild Sky Wilderness. They're almost the same area west of the crest.
I'm not pushing for more wilderness. I'm fine with what we have now. What I don't want is what public land we do have that is not designated wilderness to be more and more chopped up with roads. I also don't want 4 wheelers bombing all over wherever they want.
There are places in the central Cascades where it's hard enough to get a mile from a road...nevermind miles and miles. Those places suck to hunt if you ask me, and they're littered with people who pay no attention to gates and run their quads and dirtbikes wherever they feel like.

I don't want more roads either, I just want the ones we do have to stay open.

What peeves me is:

1) the gate is closed and
2) there's an ATV trail going around 99% of the closed gates

So what's the point of closing the gates??  It keeps legal people like me hamstrung because we don't drive around closed gates and rewards those who do drive around the gate.   Heck, I even see deer camps setup right in front of locked gates to prevent other hunters from illegally going around the locked gate while the campers are riding their ATV's through with impunity. 


3) roads are being closed due to washouts and disrepair and not being fixed

[Special T]

@yakimanoob
How many threads in the wolf discussion have you read?  Even if you ignored all the personal comments and just read the articles you would be much better versed on the subject.

The summery would be this. The ESA is a weapon used by many to attack the rural lifestyle. The wolf is the best tool to fight hunters.  Proof is in the comparison of our "wolf recovery" plan and those of I'D, WY, MT.  Ad to it the direct influence Anti hunting Orgs like DOW and HSUS have with the WDFW & USFWS and you will see why there is no trust.  Without TRUST, there can be no good faith negotiations. Get dry shaved a few times in a row and see how willing you are to WORK to find a compromise.

I don't need to support the WDFW to shoot my bow, Gun, camp and enjoy the outdoors. Perhaps the next time a merger is proposed between the Parks, dnr & wdfw sportsmen won't come to their aid a second time.

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