A better point system - no points

[SteelheadTed]

When I applied for Kentucky elk I ran across this document.
http://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Documents/examinationofelkpreferencepoints.pdf

It does a good job explaining why point systems tend to fail over time.  I realize this isn't a new revelation but I think this particular document does a good job of explaining the issue with point systems.

Kentucky had a unique opportunity that many western states don't have in that they've only offered elk tags for the last few years.  So, they could chose the system they thought would work best based on what they can see from many other different systems used around the country.  They had a chance to learn from the mistakes of other states.  It would be hard for a western state that has had a point system for many years to get away from that system without really angering those that have spent considerable money accumulating points over the years.

I still think the best system is a random draw, no points and if you draw a tag you can't apply for some number of years so that you don't end up drawing multiple times in a row when others have never drawn. 

[bobcat]

Yep, no points and a waiting period for those who draw. Simple and fair and doesn't discourage new hunters from applying for special permits.

[steeleywhopper]

I like the old way, one choice for deer and one choice for elk. If you applied for special permit elk you could not hunt on opening day Satyrday you had to wait until the Monday to hunt. If you drew a elk permit you could not apply again for four years.

[Bob33]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

[WSU]

I honestly didn't care much one way or the other regarding our point system until I had kids.  It sucks knowing their chances are minimal compared to others.  Hard to be optimistic when they are going to be 20+ points behind the curve.

[Katmai Guy]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

Not sure why people with points would need to be compensated, they got what they paid for, a chance to be drawn for a permit each year they applied.

[Stein]

For OIL and the coveted elk/deer tags, we pretty much have the same system mathematically.  The points are just feel good from a numbers perspective.

I would be in favor of a simple draw, the quality elk tags should even be oil.

[Pathfinder101]

I like the old way, one choice for deer and one choice for elk. If you applied for special permit elk you could not hunt on opening day Satyrday you had to wait until the Monday to hunt. If you drew a elk permit you could not apply again for four years.

Steely, WDFW would fire you in a heartbeat.  You aren't making nearly enough money for the state with your plan...

[highside74]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

I would gladly give up all my points for a no points system. We only end up with one number in the hat anyway. If you have 200 entries they draw 200 numbers for you. Then they take the lowest number you have and only use that number.

[bobcat]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

I would gladly give up all my points for a no points system. We only end up with one number in the hat anyway. If you have 200 entries they draw 200 numbers for you. Then they take the lowest number you have and only use that number.

They could go ahead and use all your numbers but only the lowest number would be of any benefit. If you don't draw any of your choices with the lowest number, you definitely won't get them with a higher number.

[Romulus]

With the drop in hunters the states need money......people who put in for 20 years complained when a new person drew the first year and that is when points were started....many variations....all the systems are pretty good......States with no points are foolish because you know which states I don't apply for if I don't care to spend the money on every state?   the ones with no points for 2 reasons....less chance for me to draw in those states as well as I lose nothing in next years draw chances for missing a year.

In our state all the doe and cow hunters complained they never got the chance to hunt bulls because they kept using their points on drawing antlerless....so the state came up with bull..cow...quality etc etc and now they still cant draw a bull tag but cant draw a cow tag either since the trophy hunters can now put in for bulls and cows.........

Bottom line the people happy are those who draw the tags and whichever system that is it takes luck or the system is very restrictive to new applicants.....you take out luck and only those who got in early have a chance...   we have a decent system....  I would prefer a hybrid that gives a few tags to those with the most points and then a bonus system like ours for the remaining tags like Utah does...

[BA Mongor]

Me personally,

I would love the opportunity to gift my points to my son or wife, or even sell them if I wanted. Why shouldn't we have the right, especially since we bought them and own them. I've committed to Idaho for the remainder of my hunting years, and have 18 points for quality deer, bull elk, goat and moose. I still want my goat and moose though !

BA

[Bob33]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

Not sure why people with points would need to be compensated, they got what they paid for, a chance to be drawn for a permit each year they applied.

Someone with 20 points has better odds of being drawn, because he's paid and applied for 20 years. If the point system is eliminated, his odds would be the same as everyone else. There would be an uproar.

[WSU]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

Not sure why people with points would need to be compensated, they got what they paid for, a chance to be drawn for a permit each year they applied.

Someone with 20 points has better odds of being drawn, because he's paid and applied for 20 years. If the point system is eliminated, his odds would be the same as everyone else. There would be an uproar.

I'm sure there would be.  But, with the hunter recruitment problems, it probably is ultimately unhelpful to WDFW to have an entire generation of hunters who have even worse odds of drawing a permit.

[Bob33]

Like it or not, the system we have will be in place for a long time. To eliminate points, the applicants with existing points would need to be compensated and that's not going to happen.

Not sure why people with points would need to be compensated, they got what they paid for, a chance to be drawn for a permit each year they applied.

Someone with 20 points has better odds of being drawn, because he's paid and applied for 20 years. If the point system is eliminated, his odds would be the same as everyone else. There would be an uproar.

I'm sure there would be.  But, with the hunter recruitment problems, it probably is ultimately unhelpful to WDFW to have an entire generation of hunters who have even worse odds of drawing a permit.

Lots of new hunters get into the points game each year. There were 3,083 applicants for an "any moose" permit in 2016 with one point, up from 1,941 the year before. The more disgruntled people are those at the upper ends of the point totals who haven't been drawn, and while their odds aren't great they're better than if there is only one pool of applicants.