A better point system - no points

[huntnphool]

 Start next year, no more accruing points, those that draw a permit go to zero and have no more points going forward in that category. Each year a chunk of hunters drop out of that pool, increasing the odds of those still in the game.

 As a percentage of hunters in that draw drop out, they are creating a additional group/% of hunters with "0" points. Each year, adjust the percentage of permits in the "point group" with those in the "0" point group, so that even though they are no longer in the "point group", they still have a chance to draw a permit, albeit a small chance.........no different than now.

 Once you get to the 51/49 area, you can drop out of the point group if you want and join the "0" point group since the higher percentage of permits would then be in the "0" point group.

 Yes this would take years to do, but it would eliminate the point system, while at the same time NOT eliminating the "investment" everybody to date has made, also increasing the odds of those still in, rather than reducing their odds.

[WSU]

I wonder how long that would take in practice?

[Curly]

With the drop in hunters the states need money......people who put in for 20 years complained when a new person drew the first year and that is when points were started....many variations....all the systems are pretty good......States with no points are foolish because you know which states I don't apply for if I don't care to spend the money on every state?   the ones with no points for 2 reasons....less chance for me to draw in those states as well as I lose nothing in next years draw chances for missing a year.

In our state all the doe and cow hunters complained they never got the chance to hunt bulls because they kept using their points on drawing antlerless....so the state came up with bull..cow...quality etc etc and now they still cant draw a bull tag but cant draw a cow tag either since the trophy hunters can now put in for bulls and cows.........

Bottom line the people happy are those who draw the tags and whichever system that is it takes luck or the system is very restrictive to new applicants.....you take out luck and only those who got in early have a chance...   we have a decent system....  I would prefer a hybrid that gives a few tags to those with the most points and then a bonus system like ours for the remaining tags like Utah does...

That's not the way I have heard it. I heard that it was the guys always applying for the most coveted bull tags wishing they could apply for easier to draw permits without losing their chance at the really good bull permits.

Either way, wdfw used complaints as a reason to create the category system and squeeze even more money out of us while making it  harder for both people applying force permits and people applying for those coveted bull permits. 

[huntnphool]

I wonder how long that would take in practice?

 Years, but what are the alternatives, rip the bandage off?

 You have to remember that the state can't simply remove the system, they would face litigation from those that have "invested" for years, and the state won't risk that.

 A model could be run but there are so many factors to consider.

 Each year how many draw in each category and would drop down?

 Each year how many die, the average age of hunters is getting up there, how do you factor that?

 Once the percentage of tags began favoring the "0" group, how many would choose to stay in the point group, how do you factor that?

 Etc, etc, etc.

 It took years for us to get to this point, it will take years to fix it........for those of us that actually understand the system we have is decreasing odds now.

[Stein]

It wouldn't matter how long it took, who cares if the guy with 5 points hangs out for 30 more years?

[huntnphool]

It wouldn't matter how long it took, who cares if the guy with 5 points hangs out for 30 more years?

 Depending on what hunts you apply for, it may take that long now. I know I'll never draw again once I finally get a bull elk tag........or at least be waiting 20+ years, which will put me in the handicap hunt anyway.

[shanevg]

I wonder how long that would take in practice?

 Years, but what are the alternatives, rip the bandage off?

 You have to remember that the state can't simply remove the system, they would face litigation from those that have "invested" for years, and the state won't risk that.

 A model could be run but there are so many factors to consider.

 Each year how many draw in each category and would drop down?

 Each year how many die, the average age of hunters is getting up there, how do you factor that?

 Once the percentage of tags began favoring the "0" group, how many would choose to stay in the point group, how do you factor that?

 Etc, etc, etc.

 It took years for us to get to this point, it will take years to fix it........for those of us that actually understand the system we have is decreasing odds now.

[WSU]

Something needs to give.  I see myself just hunting out of state with my family.

[huntnphool]

It wouldn't matter how long it took, who cares if the guy with 5 points hangs out for 30 more years?

 Look at it this way Stein, right now your odds are decreasing each year with our current system, you understand that right?

 So rather than decreasing your odds each year, this would actually increase them while working to eliminate the point system, which would you prefer?

[Bob33]

It wouldn't matter how long it took, who cares if the guy with 5 points hangs out for 30 more years?

 Look at it this way Stein, right now your odds are decreasing each year with our current system, you understand that right?

 So rather than decreasing your odds each year, this would actually increase them while working to eliminate the point system, which would you prefer?

Odds increase for applicants at the lower end of the pools. Going from one year to two years, you increase the number of names in the hat by 300%. Once you get to the mid point and beyond, your odds do start to decrease slightly. Game departments count on an influx of newcomers every year, and those at the upper end won't get out because they've got so many years invested.

[WSU]

I often wonder why I spend hundreds a year applying for OIL tags I'm certain I'll never get.  I'd be better off to spend the money out of state every few years and would have a lot more good hunts.

[Fletch]

Stick with the points system but pay for tags up front.  This has the potential of slimming the pool of applicants.

[LabChamp]

Stick with the points system but pay for tags up front.  This has the potential of slimming the pool of applicants.

110% on board. However, the WDFW gets too much money with the current system app fees to think about it as a serious option. IMO its the only way odds get better, less people putting in

[huntnphool]

Stick with the points system but pay for tags up front.  This has the potential of slimming the pool of applicants.

110% on board. However, the WDFW gets too much money with the current system app fees to think about it as a serious option. IMO its the only way odds get better, less people putting in

You guys are referring to the OIL's, essentially WDFW does make you front the hunt money for deer/elk by requiring the purchase of your license before you can apply.

[LabChamp]

Stick with the points system but pay for tags up front.  This has the potential of slimming the pool of applicants.

110% on board. However, the WDFW gets too much money with the current system app fees to think about it as a serious option. IMO its the only way odds get better, less people putting in

You guys are referring to the OIL's, essentially WDFW does make you front the hunt money for deer/elk by requiring the purchase of your license before you can apply.

Having everyone pay the full price of the tag for OIL apps would no doubt drive many out of applying. Figure if you had to spend 1200+ for each hunter in your family on top of you 300 bucks in licenses. Many couldnt afford to apply fo all, and would force people to choose.