New Blacktail restrictions coming for Minot Peak GMU 660

[deerhunter_98520]

I have hunted 660 for 20 years and to find a 4 pt or bigger is very hard I've been lucky enough to get 3 and a few large forks. He'll just finding bucks or deer in general anywhere in the unit is hard for most hunters. I spend alot of time scouting and finding pockets of deer. If wdfw does this I'm done hunting here, I'll go out of state more. I'm already spending $250 on a permit just to access the land and now they want to change the unit ton"trophy". 660 is basically all weyco land as it is. This state is getting worse and worse every year. Wow unbelievable

[bobcat]

I got the questionnaire but have been busy and haven't had a chance to even read it yet. I'll fill it out and return it when I have more time to think about it. But I will say I don't think we should be so critical of the WDFW over this. I'm glad they're looking at ways to improve our blacktail deer populations. They have to start somewhere, and right now they're apparently taking the first step by asking for our opinions. I think it's great. I've often wondered if a 2 point minimum on blacktail deer could improve numbers. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

[grundy53]

I wonder if harvest of mature bucks is even a problem that needs addressing?  It seems to me that blacktails are hard enough to kill that escapement likely isn't a problem anyway.

You're spot on.

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[JakeLand]

I got the questionnaire but have been busy and haven't had a chance to even read it yet. I'll fill it out and return it when I have more time to think about it. But I will say I don't think we should be so critical of the WDFW over this. I'm glad they're looking at ways to improve our blacktail deer populations. They have to start somewhere, and right now they're apparently taking the first step by asking for our opinions. I think it's great. I've often wondered if a 2 point minimum on blacktail deer could improve numbers. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

ya a 2 point minimum might help! But I truly do think a east side or a westside deer tag would do better for blacktail then a 2 point minimum 

[fishnfur]

660 - MINOT PEAK
                                                  Total               POINTS                    Hunter   Hunter   Hunter
Method       Antlerless   Antlered Havest    1     2   3   4   5+  Number Success  Days       Days/Kill


Archery                   17   6     23           6     0    0   0   0   103       22.4%   916           39.8
Modern Firearms       0      178     178         57       88   23   8   2   491       36.2%   2,673   15
Multiple Weapons   2   13      15          3     4     4    2   0     36       41.6%   267           17.8
Muzzleloader           0   2       2          2     0    0   0   0     18       11.2%   78           39
TOTALS                  19   199     218        68    92   27   10   2   n/a        n/a   n/a           n/a


I posted the 2016 harvest data above.  The whole thing makes me scratch my head.  As I've said before, I'm not very trusting of government agencies.  I always suspect they have a hidden agenda when they suggest things like this.   I don't hunt the unit, and probably never will, so I have no real worries if they proceed as planned, but  I just don't understand what they're trying to achieve by instituting antler restrictions here.

Back in the day, Big Timber used to enjoy having hunters reduce the herd because of the damage they inflicted on their crop trees.  Since Minot Peak is primarily owned by Weyco (and maybe 15% DNR), I would suspect that that company would be against any program that might reduce hunter numbers and thus increase their losses.  Alternatively, it may be that someone at Weyco made this suggestion to WDFW thinking that it might increase hunter interest in the unit and ultimately put more money in their pockets by way of trespass fees. (?)  Possibly, but not all that likely in my mind - only 550 hunters tried to kill a deer here - similar to many of the other "remote" units in the area.  I have no way of knowing if Weyco sold all their unit 660 permits in the past - but I would expect that antler restrictions would reduce hunter numbers. 

I look at the stats for 672/Fall River, and I find that that unit had twice the number of 4 and 5 point bucks that Minot Peak did.  In my mind, it would make more sense for WDFW to pick an area with good genetics and good numbers of trophy bucks already in place if they wanted to install this type of program.  Unit 660 falls well into the middle of the pack when comparing the harvest numbers for bigger bucks.  I don't think that this unit fits the bill as the best pick for an area with quality bucks, so some other unseen force seems to be at work here, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.  Perhaps Eric Holman, the State's most informed BT biologist, or the district 17 biologist (Anthony Novack (360) 249-4628 Ext. 238 teammontesano@dfw.wa.gov) could shed some light on the issue.

Ultimately, it seems to me that making the unit a two-point or better unit is the best choice, along with the idea of choosing either a west side or east side hunt.  Having more mature bucks in the woods isn't going to make them any easier to kill.  The majority of the harvest will still be the younger legal bucks ('cause they ain't that smart).  If the timing of the rut doesn't have the big bucks stupid and moving like zombies during the times that deer hunters are in the woods, then those big bruisers are still going to be giving most of us the slip.

[bobcat]

If anyone has questions, this is from the second email I received regarding the GMU 660 questionnaire:

If you have questions about the survey, feel free to contact me,  Anthony Novack, District Wildlife Biologist for Grays Harbor and Pacific counties at 360-249-4628 ext 238 or, email Anthony.Novack@dfw.wa.gov

As to whether this GMU is the best choice for this change in management strategy and the fact that it may have less mature bucks taken than a neighboring unit (672) I suspect the lower number of bigger bucks could be due to it being closer to bigger cities (Aberdeen/ Olympia) and it possibly had more hunting pressure historically, along with very likely a lot of poaching. The unit has always been mostly un-gated but now is gated and only open to a limited number of people who buy the access pass from Weyerhaeuser. I think it very well could become a very high quality blacktail unit with the right management.

[singleshot12]

I have hunted 660 for 20 years and to find a 4 pt or bigger is very hard I've been lucky enough to get 3 and a few large forks. He'll just finding bucks or deer in general anywhere in the unit is hard for most hunters. I spend alot of time scouting and finding pockets of deer. If wdfw does this I'm done hunting here, I'll go out of state more. I'm already spending $250 on a permit just to access the land and now they want to change the unit ton"trophy". 660 is basically all weyco land as it is. This state is getting worse and worse every year. Wow unbelievable

Most blacktail bucks in most areas are genetically 2 or 3 points and that's all they will ever be   This state chips away at our opportunity every chance it gets.

[Practical Approach]

1.  Black tail deer escapement for mature bucks is fairly high due to terrain.
2.  2/3 or more of the 660 unit is Weyerhaeuser fee access limited to permits thus limiting the number of hunters and further increasing escapement.
4.  Like others have said, black tailed deer are not all going to be 4 point bucks just because they get a little older.  Yes age has something to do with antler development, but so does genetics.

So,

Why recommend further restrictions on one westside GMU that is primarily restricted access and has higher than average escapement already?

Just seems like a strange recommendation.  Maybe I am missing something though.   

[lamrith]

Can someone tell me what you are referring to in terms of Escapement?  I have been trying to guess based on comments, but would rather make sure I have it correct.

[grundy53]

Can someone tell me what you are referring to in terms of Escapement?  I have been trying to guess based on comments, but would rather make sure I have it correct.

The amount of bucks that survive hunting season is the escapement.

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[lamrith]

Can someone tell me what you are referring to in terms of Escapement?  I have been trying to guess based on comments, but would rather make sure I have it correct.

The amount of bucks that survive hunting season is the escapement.

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Thanks Grundy, that is what I thought, but wanted to make sure.

[Harbor_hunter]

Looks like there will be a meeting with the district biologist on this topic Monday, Oct. 2nd at 6:30 at the Elma grange if anyone is interested in attending. 

[deerhunter_98520]

I'm gonna try and make that meeting

[bobcat]

I will be in Idaho then, otherwise I would've gone.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I argued with the state biologist about this at the hunting expo. I cant see that producing any more trophies than normal in any unit. Limiting access will only help people who dont give a rip about their objectives.  I beleive most areas produce decent bucks if you put some time in.

Precisely, all that new restrictions will do is reduce trophy buck harvest. The last week of october, and extended buck is when the big boys get stupid. Take that away and your chance of harvesting them goes down drastically. Not impossible but greatly reduced. I'd just really like to talk to the biologist who has come up with this and see who is pushing for this??

My guess would be Weyerhauser. They get the state to make it a trophy unit and Weyerhauser can up the price of their access permits. Most of this unit is owned by Weyerhauser and is part of their Aberdeen South access permit.