Pneumatic arrow gun allowed during Archery and Muzzloader Special Seasons

[JDHasty]

This device has sufficient accuracy with a scope on it to hit a 12 inch diameter target at 300 yards and sufficient energy to put an arrow completely through an elk out to 420 yards, to allow its usage during archery season in Washington was the most shortsighted and irresponsible decision possible. Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season and can be reloaded and fired eight times in the time any other muzzleloader could be reloaded only one time.


I would welcome any assistance anyone would like to offer in getting this ruling overturned. FWIW, the material supplied to the Game Commission that they used to come to this decision was the most one sided, slanted and purposely dishonest that I have ever seen. Basically what it was was a marketing campaign for allowing the pneumatic arrow guns to be used by those with disabilities during our Archery Season, and by doing so we are now experiencing a “run on the bank” by opportunists who want to be considered disabled because it will allow them use of a weapon during Archery and Muzzleloader Seasons that will far outperform an open sighted single shot 30-30 firearm.

[jhawk13]

They made those legal?!?

[Bob33]

Please post the WAC referencing their legality.

[JDHasty]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon. 

[Stump]

I looked and did not see that type of device shown as approved?

[Bob33]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon.

First, that website indicates they are legal in Washington only for hunters with disabilities. The statement "Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season" is at best misleading.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider ammoland an authority on Washington state law.

[JDHasty]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon.

First, that website indicates they are legal in Washington only for hunters with disabilities. The statement "Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season" is at best misleading.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider ammoland an authority on Washington state law.

If it can be used by a qualified individual during Archery special season then it is good to go during Muzzleloader special season, so we now have individuals out during Archery Season with a 300 yard weapon, giving them a 300% advantage in range over any other archers and during Muzzleloading Season with a weapon that has a 200% advantage in range over an open sight muzzleloader, and it can be reloaded and fired eight times before anyone using a muzzleloading rifle could get off a second shot.

I said in plain English that it is allowed by people with disabilities right in the OP.  If you don't believe what is reported by ammoland you can always review the minutes from the Committee meeting. 

[Mudman]

That's awesome!!!  BUT it should be for special use or used in muzzle modern season only, not traditional archery seasons imop.

[jhawk13]

They updated the map coverage on the pioneer airbows website. It has Washington listed as blue now. (Disability use only)

[Bob33]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon.

First, that website indicates they are legal in Washington only for hunters with disabilities. The statement "Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season" is at best misleading.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider ammoland an authority on Washington state law.

If it can be used by a qualified individual during Archery special season then it is good to go during Muzzleloader special season, so we now have individuals out during Archery Season with a 300 yard weapon a 300% advantage in range over any other archers and during Muzzleloading Season with a weapon that has a 200% advantage in range over an open sight muzzleloader, but can be reloaded and fired eight times before anyone using a muzzleloading rifle could get off a second shot.

I said in plain English that it is allowed by people with disabilities right in the OP.  If you don't believe what is reported by ammoland you can always review the minutes from the Committee meeting.

I've read all the WDFW Commission meeting minutes from 2017 and don't see any reference. Which meeting was this agreed to in?

[JDHasty]

That's awesome!!!  BUT it should be for special use or used in muzzle modern season only, not traditional archery seasons imop.

It's usage should be restricted to Modern Season only.  Accommodation means equivalent opportunity, or close to it, it most definitely does not mean that the sky is the limit.  An un-scoped crossbow meets and clears that hurdle and once that threshold has been met then anything more is nothing but rank opportunism.

And as for the expense of retrofitting, if you own a 209 ML, and you want to participate in Washington's special Muzzleloader Season then you either pay to retrofit it or purchase a legal weapon.  So that argument is without precedent and should not have been allowed. 

Same with a scope sighted muzzleloader, you can use it during Modern Season, but if you want to participate in a special season the expense of iron sights does not make it OK to use a scope during that season.

[JDHasty]

They updated the map coverage on the pioneer airbows website. It has Washington listed as blue now. (Disability use only)

I became aware of this issue while having a beer at one of the local gun clubs.  An individual at the table next to me had stated that he had purchased a super-duper new crossbow and that he was going to put a HHA Optimizer between the scope and the bow and that with it he would be able to shoot elk on the other side of the river from his cabin near Pe Ell (165 - 180 yards), by resting it off his picnic table, and do it during archery season. 

The elk wouldn't be there after archery season started because bow hunters would have moved them back from the river, but he was sure he could take a six by six at up to 200 yards on opening morning. 

His buddy said he had almost everything needed to get signed off too, and that he was going to pick up an Airbow from Ken at Cabela's, who was the guy responsible for getting this ruling pushed through. 

 

[Stein]

Yeah, my 30-06 only has a range to about 400ish due to velocity required to expand the TSX.  If an arrow from a scoped weapon can punch an elk at a further range, it really isn't a primitive weapon.

[yorketransport]

Why do you assume that anyone using one of these is going start shootng elk at 300+ yards?

More concerning than your lack of faith in the ethics of other hunters is the assumption that there are going to be a bunch of people filing for "fake" dissabled hunter permits. Who's going to be assigned the task of deciding who's disabled enough to qualify? I don't know your background or qualifications, so maybe you are qualified to make that distinction. As it stands right now disabled hunter applicants are required to present evidence from a doctor. Do you think that WDFW is qualified to make that decision? I have a former customer who has polio but has been denied a disabled hunter permit multiple times.

I don't dissagree with you that they shouldn't be allowed during general archery. I don't see an issue during muzzle loader season though. I've shot washington legal muzzle loaders that would effectively kill well beyond 250 yards in the right hands.

[JDHasty]

Irrespective of ANY other concern, accommodation is met with an unscoped crossbow.  Anything more is not warranted.  Once accommodation is met there is no right to anything more.

In fact the State Constitution says that what opportunity is given to any group must be available for all user groups.  The only exception would be for accommodation of specific disabilities and allowing one group of able-sighted hunters to use ILLUMINATED scopes while denying other able-sighted hunters the opportunity for either a scope or battery powered device on their bows is unConstitutional. 

What is more, I have the documentation presented to the Commission and in it there was deliberately misleading information presented with regard to many aspects of what they had before them for consideration.   

This entire decision on both scopes on crossbows for able-sighted disabled hunters and pneumatic arrow guns is terribly flawed and needs to be readdressed by the Commission.   

[Duckslayer89]

My dad has had to have 2 rotator cuff surgerys, one on both shoulders. Recently tore his left shoulder again. Does this qualify him for being disabled? He can't really pull his bow back very well anymore and can't hold it steady

[Stump]

The ADA manager from the state just contacted me and the Airbow could be approved under the SUP application process.

[Stein]

Why do you assume that anyone using one of these is going start shootng elk at 300+ yards?

More concerning than your lack of faith in the ethics of other hunters is the assumption that there are going to be a bunch of people filing for "fake" dissabled hunter permits. Who's going to be assigned the task of deciding who's disabled enough to qualify? I don't know your background or qualifications, so maybe you are qualified to make that distinction. As it stands right now disabled hunter applicants are required to present evidence from a doctor. Do you think that WDFW is qualified to make that decision? I have a former customer who has polio but has been denied a disabled hunter permit multiple times.

I didn't say it was unethical, or even that people would use them for that.  I said something that has the power and accuracy to take elk at 400 yards isn't a primitive weapon.  I think that WDFW is qualified and should make that decision.

If you want my opinion on whether people who aren't disabled apply and receive the tags, I would say it would probably mirror the situation with disabled parking permits.

[Duckslayer89]

Why do you assume that anyone using one of these is going start shootng elk at 300+ yards?

More concerning than your lack of faith in the ethics of other hunters is the assumption that there are going to be a bunch of people filing for "fake" dissabled hunter permits. Who's going to be assigned the task of deciding who's disabled enough to qualify? I don't know your background or qualifications, so maybe you are qualified to make that distinction. As it stands right now disabled hunter applicants are required to present evidence from a doctor. Do you think that WDFW is qualified to make that decision? I have a former customer who has polio but has been denied a disabled hunter permit multiple times.

I didn't say it was unethical, or even that people would use them for that.  I said something that has the power and accuracy to take elk at 400 yards isn't a primitive weapon.  I think that WDFW is qualified and should make that decision.

If you want my opinion on whether people who aren't disabled apply and receive the tags, I would say it would probably mirror the situation with disabled parking permits.

Fat lazy people only? 

[Mudman]

Just common sense tells me that this weapon is not an accurate, consistant, lethal 400yard killer.  Sorry but drama is getting ridiculous.  It shoots 450fps, ok cool.  We are shooting bows over 300+fps and 200yards isn't a consideration.  Would it kill at 400y?  Probably if ya aim at tree tops.  I don't buy into the BS.

[Bookworm007]

Just common sense tells me that this weapon is not an accurate, consistant, lethal 400yard killer.  Sorry but drama is getting ridiculous.  It shoots 450fps, ok cool.  We are shooting bows over 300+fps and 200yards isn't a consideration.  Would it kill at 400y?  Probably if ya aim at tree tops.  I don't buy into the BS.

I agree with Mudman, I'm thinking these specs are overrated. Just going off what it takes to shoot a pellet rifle at those ranges with that much accuracy you are going to have a huge set up to shoot an arrow at those ranges. 

[3dsheetmetal]

Just common sense tells me that this weapon is not an accurate, consistant, lethal 400yard killer.  Sorry but drama is getting ridiculous.  It shoots 450fps, ok cool.  We are shooting bows over 300+fps and 200yards isn't a consideration.  Would it kill at 400y?  Probably if ya aim at tree tops.  I don't buy into the BS.

  it's good out to about 75yds.

[Duckslayer89]

Might be able to throw a double turn VX6 HD on there and really reach out. Might be kind of cool actually in firearm restricted areas

[mkcj]

[winshooter88]

At one of the recent GMAC meetings the WDFW Disabilities lady was really pushing the airbow, and basically said that they legally have to make new weapons available if they will help persons with disabilities to be able to hunt. The bow hunter representatives and many other members were very much against the use of these even for disabled hunters, let alone in regular seasons. As far as I know they are not legal for anything but disabled hunters at this time and haven't been approved for non-disabled use yet. As for getting approved for disability status, a couple years ago they changed the requirements to make it harder for people to work the system and get approved for disabled accommodations because there were many, many people getting approved as disabled who weren't actually disabled. Getting approved to use a crossbow during archery season is much harder than it used to be.

[yorketransport]

Just common sense tells me that this weapon is not an accurate, consistant, lethal 400yard killer.  Sorry but drama is getting ridiculous.  It shoots 450fps, ok cool.  We are shooting bows over 300+fps and 200yards isn't a consideration.  Would it kill at 400y?  Probably if ya aim at tree tops.  I don't buy into the BS.

I reject your reality and choose to substitute my own! The air bow may as well be a belt fed, full auto, long range tactical assault bow! It's about time the archery community had the option to "spray and pray".   

It's a lot more fun to panic and think that any movement from traditional methods is going to bring on the end of hunting and civilization itself. It's always kind of funny to see how the gun world embraces advancement and fights to support new technology, but large segments of the archery and muzzleloader community will fight against similar advancements.

[Tinmaniac]

An arrow propelled by air is not archery.Just as a rocket is not a firearm.I would like to see some repeatable penetration tests at 200,300,400 yards.A guy popping a ballon a 200 yards and being amazed he hit the target is not hunting.At some point in distance the arrow is no longer being shot it's just falling.A 375 grain arrow falling 200 feet is not going to kill an elk.That being said the airbow is pretty impressive.

[JDHasty]

An arrow propelled by air is not archery.Just as a rocket is not a firearm.I would like to see some repeatable penetration tests at 200,300,400 yards.A guy popping a ballon a 200 yards and being amazed he hit the target is not hunting.At some point in distance the arrow is no longer being shot it's just falling.A 375 grain arrow falling 200 feet is not going to kill an elk.That being said the airbow is pretty impressive.

I have run the numbers and a 400 grain bolt launched at 450 fps retains 67 foot lbs of energy at 420 yards.  Eastman says 45-65 lbs energy for elk size game.

A 400 gr arrow traveling 275 fps is not "falling."  It has as much, or more forward momentum than a lot of 300 grain arrows launched from a compound bow does at the point it was launched.   

If you don't like my math, calculate it yourself.  If you don't like Eastman's numbers... there is no better authority so it matters not what anyone says, you have your mind made up. 

And there are videos of a guy hitting a 12 inch diameter balloon repeatedly at 300 yards with a Matrix 380, so since the pneumatic arrow gun has accuracy that exceeds crossbow accuracy and it will put an arrow completely trough an elk at 300 yards it is has a documented effective range of 300 yards on elk size game. 

As for "washington legal muzzle loaders that would effectively kill well beyond 250 yards in the right hands," I would give that statement the same consideration I used to give the guy who showed up at the trap range and couldn't break 15 targets "but never misses on live birds."  The difference is no one is present who was keeping score on these guys live bird shooting.  Or anyone who wants to claim such who cannot point to the registered targets on file with a sanctioning body. 

I have no issue with these being legal for use during the modern season, but Washington Archery and Muzzleloader are defined as "primitive weapon" seasons.  What is more, misfires are very common in Washington ML hunting, you are not allowed 209 primers, but these pneumatic arrow guns don't misfire, can have illuminated reticle scopes  and can be reloaded and fired eight times before a ML can be reloaded and fired a second time. 

They go so far beyond accommodation that they are a difference in kind rather than a difference in degree.  They do not belong in primitive weapon seasons.  I have archery hunted and had deer standing in front of me I could not shoot because it was not light enough or too dark out that I could have easily shot with my scoped crossbow or my scoped slug gun or my scoped rifle.  Fact is I have shot legal deer or elk between fifteen minutes after legal sundown and a half hour with all three, which is well after it would not be possible on a crappy day to get a good sight picture with any non illuminated archery sight. Illuminated low light scopes extend the hunting day by almost a half hour if you add up somewhere between 12 to 15 minutes extended hunting both morning and evening.   

[Stein]

It's always kind of funny to see how the gun world embraces advancement and fights to support new technology, but large segments of the archery and muzzleloader community will fight against similar advancements.

Maybe that is why they call it the "modern" season as opposed to "primitive weapons"?  Seems to make perfect sense to me.  One is modern, which by definition includes new advances.  One is primitive, which by definition excludes modern and new advances.

[Tinmaniac]

An arrow propelled by air is not archery.Just as a rocket is not a firearm.I would like to see some repeatable penetration tests at 200,300,400 yards.A guy popping a ballon a 200 yards and being amazed he hit the target is not hunting.At some point in distance the arrow is no longer being shot it's just falling.A 375 grain arrow falling 200 feet is not going to kill an elk.That being said the airbow is pretty impressive.

Without the 12' tall backstop those shots are impossible.The tall backstop is being used as a point of reference to aim at.Put a foam elk at 300 yards with no backstop used as reference and it's a miss every time.

I have run the numbers and a 400 grain bolt launched at 450 fps retains 67 foot lbs of energy at 420 yards.  Eastman says 45-65 lbs energy for elk size game.

A 400 gr arrow traveling 275 fps is not "falling."  It has as much, or more forward momentum than a lot of 300 grain arrows launched from a compound bow does at the point it was launched.   

If you don't like my math, calculate it yourself.  If you don't like Eastman's numbers... there is no better authority so it matters not what anyone says, you have your mind made up. 

And there are videos of a guy hitting a 12 inch diameter balloon repeatedly at 300 yards with a Matrix 380, so since the pneumatic arrow gun has accuracy that exceeds crossbow accuracy and it will put an arrow completely trough an elk at 300 yards it is has a documented effective range of 300 yards on elk size game. 

As for "washington legal muzzle loaders that would effectively kill well beyond 250 yards in the right hands," I would give that statement the same consideration I used to give the guy who showed up at the trap range and couldn't break 15 targets "but never misses on live birds."  The difference is no one is present who was keeping score on these guys live bird shooting.  Or anyone who wants to claim such who cannot point to the registered targets on file with a sanctioning body. 

I have no issue with these being legal for use during the modern season, but Washington Archery and Muzzleloader are defined as "primitive weapon" seasons.  What is more, misfires are very common in Washington ML hunting, you are not allowed 209 primers, but these pneumatic arrow guns don't misfire, can have illuminated reticle scopes  and can be reloaded and fired eight times before a ML can be reloaded and fired a second time. 

They go so far beyond accommodation that they are a difference in kind rather than a difference in degree.  They do not belong in primitive weapon seasons.  I have archery hunted and had deer standing in front of me I could not shoot because it was not light enough or too dark out that I could have easily shot with my crossbow or my slug gun or my rifle.  Fact is I have shot legal deer or elk between fifteen minutes after legal sundown and a half hour with all three well after it would not be possible on a crappy day to get a good sight picture with any non illuminated archery sight. Illuminated low light scopes extend the hunting day by almost a half hour if you add up somewhere between 12 to 15 minutes extended hunting both morning and evening.   

[JDHasty]

An arrow propelled by air is not archery.Just as a rocket is not a firearm.I would like to see some repeatable penetration tests at 200,300,400 yards.A guy popping a ballon a 200 yards and being amazed he hit the target is not hunting.At some point in distance the arrow is no longer being shot it's just falling.A 375 grain arrow falling 200 feet is not going to kill an elk.That being said the airbow is pretty impressive.

Without the 12' tall backstop those shots are impossible.The tall backstop is being used as a point of reference to aim at.Put a foam elk at 300 yards with no backstop used as reference and it's a miss every time.

I have run the numbers and a 400 grain bolt launched at 450 fps retains 67 foot lbs of energy at 420 yards.  Eastman says 45-65 lbs energy for elk size game.

A 400 gr arrow traveling 275 fps is not "falling."  It has as much, or more forward momentum than a lot of 300 grain arrows launched from a compound bow does at the point it was launched.   

If you don't like my math, calculate it yourself.  If you don't like Eastman's numbers... there is no better authority so it matters not what anyone says, you have your mind made up. 

And there are videos of a guy hitting a 12 inch diameter balloon repeatedly at 300 yards with a Matrix 380, so since the pneumatic arrow gun has accuracy that exceeds crossbow accuracy and it will put an arrow completely trough an elk at 300 yards it is has a documented effective range of 300 yards on elk size game. 

As for "washington legal muzzle loaders that would effectively kill well beyond 250 yards in the right hands," I would give that statement the same consideration I used to give the guy who showed up at the trap range and couldn't break 15 targets "but never misses on live birds."  The difference is no one is present who was keeping score on these guys live bird shooting.  Or anyone who wants to claim such who cannot point to the registered targets on file with a sanctioning body. 

I have no issue with these being legal for use during the modern season, but Washington Archery and Muzzleloader are defined as "primitive weapon" seasons.  What is more, misfires are very common in Washington ML hunting, you are not allowed 209 primers, but these pneumatic arrow guns don't misfire, can have illuminated reticle scopes  and can be reloaded and fired eight times before a ML can be reloaded and fired a second time. 

They go so far beyond accommodation that they are a difference in kind rather than a difference in degree.  They do not belong in primitive weapon seasons.  I have archery hunted and had deer standing in front of me I could not shoot because it was not light enough or too dark out that I could have easily shot with my crossbow or my slug gun or my rifle.  Fact is I have shot legal deer or elk between fifteen minutes after legal sundown and a half hour with all three well after it would not be possible on a crappy day to get a good sight picture with any non illuminated archery sight. Illuminated low light scopes extend the hunting day by almost a half hour if you add up somewhere between 12 to 15 minutes extended hunting both morning and evening.   

Poppycock

The guy I watched used an HHA Optimizer between his scope and weaver base that allowed him to dial in elevation out at those distances, and there is nothing that prevents someone putting a varmint scope or other high power large adjustment range scope with illuminated reticle in it on either a crossbow or a pneumatic arrow gun and dialing precise elevations.  My crossbow is an Excalibur Triggertech Matrix 355, which is nothing to sneeze at, but it falls short of what is out there today, and it is child's play to shoot groups of an inch at fifty yards with it off a Bullsbag rest. 

It has an illuminated scope on it and I use it to hunt during Modern Seasons, I use my compound bow more during Modern Seasons, it just depends on how I am feeling at the moment which I might grab if I decide to hunt with something other than a modern firearm.

I think it is absolutely ludicrous to allow equipment that falls so far outside the effective range of ANY compound bow, then add to this the fact that adding low light illuminated reticle scopes adds ~ a half-hour to the hunting day. 

This is not legitimate accommodation by any definition. 

[yorketransport]

It's always kind of funny to see how the gun world embraces advancement and fights to support new technology, but large segments of the archery and muzzleloader community will fight against similar advancements.

Maybe that is why they call it the "modern" season as opposed to "primitive weapons"?  Seems to make perfect sense to me.  One is modern, which by definition includes new advances.  One is primitive, which by definition excludes modern and new advances.

I get that, but then why aren't all archers fighting to go back to recurve and long bows? Compounds certainly qualify as an advancement in archery equipment don't they? Is this just a case of technology advancing too far?

As for "washington legal muzzle loaders that would effectively kill well beyond 250 yards in the right hands," I would give that statement the same consideration I used to give the guy who showed up at the trap range and couldn't break 15 targets "but never misses on live birds."  The difference is no one is present who was keeping score on these guys live bird shooting.  Or anyone who wants to claim such who cannot point to the registered targets on file with a sanctioning body. 
   

I don't personally know anyone here in WA who's actually taking game animals with muzzle loaders beyond 200 yards, but I've shot them enough and shot with enough guys to know that hitting a 12" gong at 250 yards with one isn't terribly hard. Anyone who's spent much time with iron sights, especially a quality peep site, can make those hits with little effort. At 250 yards, a 300gr sabot load with a muzzle velocity of around 1900 fps (a pretty realistic velocity from a 28" barrel) still has nearly the same velocity as the same bullet fired from either a 44 mag or 45 Colt +P load at the muzzle (typically 1200fps) and no knowledgeable hunter would deny the effectiveness of either one of those rounds out to 50+ yards.

As far as illuminated optics extending usable hunting hours, couldn't the same be said about superior optics coatings on binos? I know that using a $100 pair of Big 5 binos will shave some time off of your usable hunting light compared to a guy using a pair of Swaros. Should we restrict the quality of optics that hunters should be allowed to use during different seasons? Maybe those hunting during primitive seasons shouldn't be allowed to use binos.

My whole point here is that there's already equipment out there that's capable of making what would be considered extreme range shots  in the right hands. That doesn't mean the everybody is out there doing it though. Have a little more faith in the hunting community and don't worry quite so much about spreading fear and panic. More importantly, please stop wasting government officials' time with this stuff! Government agencies have much more important things to do than deal with "the sky is falling" phone calls all the time over what amounts to insignificant issues. Why not just focus on educating your target audience instead of legislating them?

[JDHasty]

Conversation I have been having on Bowhunting.com:

*****************

They just need to be caught by the Game and fish. They won’t be riding around in the back of any more truck miss-using the diss-able clause, that they are handy caped. They are clearly in violation. They just need the game and fish to explain it to them real good!


*******************

That is where you are wrong,  The "disability coordinator" pushed this through too.  I looked it up and if you "qualify" you are now afforded the luxury of hunting during Washington's Archery Season, before archers have been in the field for the month of September, when elk herds allow the luxury of driving to within a couple hundred yards of them and snapping photos (believe me I have many, but none that were taken in October or November or even after the second day of Archery Season) when you cannot get within a quarter mile of an elk herd without them exiting stage right, left or straight away.

So add to that our forests are cut up by roads, and the elk and deer tolerate traffic all summer, but once Archery Season has been going for a couple weeks - you do the math.  And although the access roads close to hunters, they are open (and rightfully so IMHO)  for those who cannot walk due to ambulatory disability.  BUT if you "got the disability stamp," for a lack of being able to pull a compound or recurve or longbow, the door is kicked wide open.  EVEN if you can walk, run, jump and get through the woods like an Olympic athlete.  How ludicrous is that?  What a mockery of "reasonable accommodation" does that ruling make of the concept of our "primitive weapon seasons?"

I am all for allowing "reasonable accommodation," what I object to is allowing rank opportunists to enlist the assistance of the gal WDFW hired as a disability manager to so *censored*ize the very concept of reasonable accommodation, advocate on behalf of unreasonable advantage and get this crap pushed through.

[Smossy]

I know everyone hates on the over accommodation but being a felon myself and limited to bow hunting (not by choice) I enjoy the possibility at being able to reach out alittle further.
Of course there should be and can be better ways of writing it into initiative. Just my two cents. I was always looking forward to the possibility of air guns that are able to reach a certain about of kinetic energy and fps being made legal for hunting even if placed in modern firearm seasons. It would alow people like me to hunt longer ranges in an ethical way.
Before some of you say "by no means are air rifles ethical" you should do alittle more research. Some of these air rifles thsee days are able to drop cape buffalo and even some larger African animals at 100+ yards with no problem. The power is there.

[JDHasty]

I know everyone hates on the over accommodation but being a felon myself and limited to bow hunting (not by choice) I enjoy the possibility at being able to reach out alittle further.
Of course there should be and can be better ways of writing it into initiative. Just my two cents. I was always looking forward to the possibility of air guns that are able to reach a certain about of kinetic energy and fps being made legal for hunting even if placed in modern firearm seasons. It would alow people like me to hunt longer ranges in an ethical way.
Before some of you say "by no means are air rifles ethical" you should do alittle more research. Some of these air rifles thsee days are able to drop cape buffalo and even some larger African animals at 100+ yards with no problem. The power is there.

Join us during the Modern Season.  You know as well as I that elk and deer will let you drive up to them in early Archery Seasons.  That is what Archery is all about, stalking an elk that has no clue up to archery range.  For the love of God man, I could walk up to an elk herd in a Santa clause suite on Sept 1.  I could drive a Bradly tank up to within 200 yards of an elk herd on Sept 1. 


Restrict 200 yard plus weapons to Modern Season.  Allow accommodation,  but let's cut the crap, if you want to hunt during a season that demands stalking up to 80, or so yards.... you do the math.  Where does a weapon that allows a 200 yard "chip shot" fit into that special Season? 

[Dan-o]

JD, I'm a little unclear on this.

What is your position?

 

Sorry.....   Couldn't help myself.     

[yorketransport]

Restrict 200 yard plus weapons to Modern Season.  Allow accommodation,  but let's cut the crap, if you want to hunt during a season that demands stalking up to 80, or so yards.... you do the math.  Where does a weapon that allows a 2000 yard "chip shot" fit into that special Season?

I've done a lot of shooting out beyond 1 mile and I can't think of any platform that makes 2000 yards a chip shot.