Pneumatic arrow gun allowed during Archery and Muzzloader Special Seasons

[JDHasty]

This device has sufficient accuracy with a scope on it to hit a 12 inch diameter target at 300 yards and sufficient energy to put an arrow completely through an elk out to 420 yards, to allow its usage during archery season in Washington was the most shortsighted and irresponsible decision possible. Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season and can be reloaded and fired eight times in the time any other muzzleloader could be reloaded only one time.


I would welcome any assistance anyone would like to offer in getting this ruling overturned. FWIW, the material supplied to the Game Commission that they used to come to this decision was the most one sided, slanted and purposely dishonest that I have ever seen. Basically what it was was a marketing campaign for allowing the pneumatic arrow guns to be used by those with disabilities during our Archery Season, and by doing so we are now experiencing a “run on the bank” by opportunists who want to be considered disabled because it will allow them use of a weapon during Archery and Muzzleloader Seasons that will far outperform an open sighted single shot 30-30 firearm.

[jhawk13]

They made those legal?!?

[Bob33]

Please post the WAC referencing their legality.

[JDHasty]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon. 

[Stump]

I looked and did not see that type of device shown as approved?

[Bob33]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon.

First, that website indicates they are legal in Washington only for hunters with disabilities. The statement "Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season" is at best misleading.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider ammoland an authority on Washington state law.

[JDHasty]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon.

First, that website indicates they are legal in Washington only for hunters with disabilities. The statement "Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season" is at best misleading.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider ammoland an authority on Washington state law.

If it can be used by a qualified individual during Archery special season then it is good to go during Muzzleloader special season, so we now have individuals out during Archery Season with a 300 yard weapon, giving them a 300% advantage in range over any other archers and during Muzzleloading Season with a weapon that has a 200% advantage in range over an open sight muzzleloader, and it can be reloaded and fired eight times before anyone using a muzzleloading rifle could get off a second shot.

I said in plain English that it is allowed by people with disabilities right in the OP.  If you don't believe what is reported by ammoland you can always review the minutes from the Committee meeting. 

[Mudman]

That's awesome!!!  BUT it should be for special use or used in muzzle modern season only, not traditional archery seasons imop.

[jhawk13]

They updated the map coverage on the pioneer airbows website. It has Washington listed as blue now. (Disability use only)

[Bob33]

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/02/washington-state-now-allowing-airbow-hunting/#axzz4smL9lWR5

Open this up and it is going to result in our Special Seasons being scaled back, and or lawsuits being filed because this is not accommodation, it goes so far beyond "reasonable accommodation" that it isn't even worthy of consideration as an equivalent weapon.

First, that website indicates they are legal in Washington only for hunters with disabilities. The statement "Since it is legal for archery hunting it is also legal for muzzleloader season" is at best misleading.

Secondly, I wouldn't consider ammoland an authority on Washington state law.

If it can be used by a qualified individual during Archery special season then it is good to go during Muzzleloader special season, so we now have individuals out during Archery Season with a 300 yard weapon a 300% advantage in range over any other archers and during Muzzleloading Season with a weapon that has a 200% advantage in range over an open sight muzzleloader, but can be reloaded and fired eight times before anyone using a muzzleloading rifle could get off a second shot.

I said in plain English that it is allowed by people with disabilities right in the OP.  If you don't believe what is reported by ammoland you can always review the minutes from the Committee meeting.

I've read all the WDFW Commission meeting minutes from 2017 and don't see any reference. Which meeting was this agreed to in?

[JDHasty]

That's awesome!!!  BUT it should be for special use or used in muzzle modern season only, not traditional archery seasons imop.

It's usage should be restricted to Modern Season only.  Accommodation means equivalent opportunity, or close to it, it most definitely does not mean that the sky is the limit.  An un-scoped crossbow meets and clears that hurdle and once that threshold has been met then anything more is nothing but rank opportunism.

And as for the expense of retrofitting, if you own a 209 ML, and you want to participate in Washington's special Muzzleloader Season then you either pay to retrofit it or purchase a legal weapon.  So that argument is without precedent and should not have been allowed. 

Same with a scope sighted muzzleloader, you can use it during Modern Season, but if you want to participate in a special season the expense of iron sights does not make it OK to use a scope during that season.

[JDHasty]

They updated the map coverage on the pioneer airbows website. It has Washington listed as blue now. (Disability use only)

I became aware of this issue while having a beer at one of the local gun clubs.  An individual at the table next to me had stated that he had purchased a super-duper new crossbow and that he was going to put a HHA Optimizer between the scope and the bow and that with it he would be able to shoot elk on the other side of the river from his cabin near Pe Ell (165 - 180 yards), by resting it off his picnic table, and do it during archery season. 

The elk wouldn't be there after archery season started because bow hunters would have moved them back from the river, but he was sure he could take a six by six at up to 200 yards on opening morning. 

His buddy said he had almost everything needed to get signed off too, and that he was going to pick up an Airbow from Ken at Cabela's, who was the guy responsible for getting this ruling pushed through. 

 

[Stein]

Yeah, my 30-06 only has a range to about 400ish due to velocity required to expand the TSX.  If an arrow from a scoped weapon can punch an elk at a further range, it really isn't a primitive weapon.

[yorketransport]

Why do you assume that anyone using one of these is going start shootng elk at 300+ yards?

More concerning than your lack of faith in the ethics of other hunters is the assumption that there are going to be a bunch of people filing for "fake" dissabled hunter permits. Who's going to be assigned the task of deciding who's disabled enough to qualify? I don't know your background or qualifications, so maybe you are qualified to make that distinction. As it stands right now disabled hunter applicants are required to present evidence from a doctor. Do you think that WDFW is qualified to make that decision? I have a former customer who has polio but has been denied a disabled hunter permit multiple times.

I don't dissagree with you that they shouldn't be allowed during general archery. I don't see an issue during muzzle loader season though. I've shot washington legal muzzle loaders that would effectively kill well beyond 250 yards in the right hands.

[JDHasty]

Irrespective of ANY other concern, accommodation is met with an unscoped crossbow.  Anything more is not warranted.  Once accommodation is met there is no right to anything more.

In fact the State Constitution says that what opportunity is given to any group must be available for all user groups.  The only exception would be for accommodation of specific disabilities and allowing one group of able-sighted hunters to use ILLUMINATED scopes while denying other able-sighted hunters the opportunity for either a scope or battery powered device on their bows is unConstitutional. 

What is more, I have the documentation presented to the Commission and in it there was deliberately misleading information presented with regard to many aspects of what they had before them for consideration.   

This entire decision on both scopes on crossbows for able-sighted disabled hunters and pneumatic arrow guns is terribly flawed and needs to be readdressed by the Commission.