Duplicity in the wolf debate

[ribka]

When I referenced BC, I am referencing the recent trophy ban on grizzly bear hunting. I never once said CNW is an ally in a broader sense. They may be, or they may not depending on your viewpoint. I will just reiterate that they will be a very important ally and developing a wolf hunt/season if/when the time comes


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I grew up hunting in Wisconsin over 30 years

I stopped going 10 years ago I would hunt a week and not see a deer
Growing up not uncommon to see 20 to 30 deer a day hunting and over a 100 deer on bid alfalfa fields at night. Now you're lucky to see 2 deer on the field

Wisconsin has around 240 wolf packs. That's right 240 wolf packs in state that has much less forested areas than Washington. The packs are growing about 25 per cent a year

The spokesman for CNW stated those are good numbers and did not support hunting wolves
 
In fact Groups like CNW worked with anti hunting group howling wolves to get wolf hunting shut down 2 years ago in Wisconsin . And did the same Minnesota and Michigan by filing lawsuits in federal court!

Imagine how many packs of wolves will be introduced by CNW in states like Washington and Oregon? 500 packs or more. That would decimate the stressed mule deer and moose and destroy our concentrated elk herds

Think we would have any hunting seasons in ten years?

I like to stick to the facts and not possible outcomes but if you think colaborating with an ecoterrorist is sound planning will never change your mind

[JLS]

If you're going to stick to the facts, then stick to the facts. The Washington wolf plan calls for 15 breeding pairs. It says nothing about 500 packs, so I have no idea where you're deriving that number from.

I don't have a crystal ball, and I'm not going to try to predict what number of wolves CNW will view as a valid number to have before they would support hunting.  All I am saying is that CNW will certainly be involved in the potential development of a wolf hunt, therefore, they will be someone that can be either be an ally or an opponent. 

Mitch's past history is certainly something to keep aware of. However, you can be aware of it and move forward in the future without remaining rooted in the past.   I guarantee you other groups will sit down with CNW to have talks about potential wolf hunts in Washington. I would much prefer to be at the table and have my voice heard rather than sit on the sidelines because I don't like or agree with their stance on certain things. Your mileage may vary.


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[wolfbait]

The more you dig into CNW and their roots, it becomes apparent that they are a go between.  They shill for anti hunting groups while making the appearance of representing us... That is how they get on advisory groups    into the ear of politicians saying the are a sportsmen friendly org.

As much as I dislike these guys they get traction because we as sportsmen have not unified with a strong voice.

Partners would be the correct term, WDF&wolves have several more on the WAG. Look into WDF&Wolves thirty year plan.

Fake environmentalists is another term that describes CNW, fake environemtetal groups push the agendas for the USFWS, WDFW etc., sort of like a silent partner on the inside, while making $$$$$$$$. Remember the wolf delisting tactics in ID, MT,? The USFWS made sure they always left a loophole open so the their fake environmental partners could sue.

I went to one of the wolf meetings, the 800,000.00 waste of money meeting, the lady explained that the "environmentalists'' wanted to set down and have tea, get to know the people who had problems with wolves a bit better so they could work out a solution to the conflicts. She was told by several it wasn't the "fake environmentalists" that had cause the wolf problems in WA, but instead the fake WDFW, who had lied at every turn.

At this point in the game anyone who claims the wolf introduction has anything to do with science is also pushing the wolf agenda. The wolf introduction is about getting cattle off public lands and ending hunting.

[wolfbait]

Argues Mitch Friedman, director of the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance, "Wolves in the Olympics make perfect political sense because you've got a congressman who wants them in his district. But biologically speaking, why are we starting another batch of cookies while we let the ones we've already got in the oven burn?"

While funding for the Olympic wolf-restoration program has been rolling through the House

 Wait a second, what happened to the "natural migration"?

A little more history....

The “Naturally Migrating” GI Wolves

http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/

[huntnphool]

So as hunters are only chance is to link up with a thoughtful man who spent 20 years as an ecoterrorist and has lobbied politicians in our state to shut down hunting seasons and whose group collaborated with other anti hunting groups to shut down hunting?

Ok now that makes perfect sense

Thanks

If you think have a chance in Hades of EVER having a wolf season without collaborating with groups like CNW, you are sorely mistaken.  So, I guess it depends on what you are hoping to achieve.

If your goal is only to discredit a group in such a way they are never considered a future collaborative partner, then carry on.

 We all should hope there are never enough wolves to have a season.

[Special T]

Must not be many poker players in this discussion.. Those making the case for CNW and their Ilk are either Shills or have been slow played.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_play

This definition fits quite nicely what is going on.

[Bushcraft]

Here's a few questions: How much money has WDFW given or funneled through CNW over the years?  From which division(s)?  And for what express purpose?

[JLS]

Must not be many poker players in this discussion.. Those making the case for CNW and their Ilk are either Shills or have been slow played.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_play

This definition fits quite nicely what is going on.

Neither a shill or being slow played.  Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.


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[ribka]

I'd never thought I would see hunters embrace anti hunting groups and enable them to end hunting and ranching
And work closely with a self admitted and proud eco terrorist

I'm leaving WA in. Few months so have no skin the game in the future

I'm posting this let you know who is actively working to shut down hunting and ranching in this state

[bearpaw]

I'll partner with ranchers and local people before I ever partner with anti-hunting/trapping groups. Now that CNW has cleverly forced wolves upon us certainly they want to be our friend so we'll put up with the wolves and report wolf poachers.

It's pretty easy to say Mitch Friedman supports hound hunting after he helped eliminate it. In fact it's pretty easy to say anything once there is no chance of it happening. 

I'll agree with ribka, when CNW starts supporting hunting and posting hunting photos and stories on their website then I'll believe they support hunting. I can offer a few awesome cougar hunting stories, let's see if they print that? For now I firmly beleive CNW views hunting exactly the way they view logging. The only reason they are bending a little is because they know they are viewed as extremists and were beginning to lose clout. They are very clever, I will give them that. Anyone who thinks otherwise is most likely sadly mistaken.

We are better off to side with ranchers, farmers, loggers, and rural legislators than to associate with CNW and oyther extrmist groups. If hunters collaborate with extremist they are going to use that to say they work with hunters to try and gain more influence.

They at best are clever operators, they really have no desire to expand hunting/trapping or the rural life the way we know it. They have their own world view and given the opportunity will turn on the rest of us and eliminate other forms of recreation and rural occupations when the opportunity presents itself.

We should oppose CNW or they will take advantage saying they work with sports folks and use that to eliminate more hunting/trapping/rural lifestyles.

[bearpaw]

It's so easy to see how CNW is cleverly posting little tidbits here and there about how they are helping rural communities and ranchers saying how this helps people and wolves. No doubt they are laughing behind the scenes and patting themselves on the back cheering how they have so cleverly manipulated wolf introduction.

I can tell you this, rural communities lost millions of dollars from hunters who quit coming and by livestock being eaten when wolves over populated in Idaho and Montana, now it's happening in WA. Mark my words, you will see fewer moose permits in WA just about every year until wolf numbers are greatly decreased, which will probably never happen. At least 50% to 60% of the moose are already gone, there are wolf tracks in the trails where there used to be moose tracks.

I used to tell my moose hunters we will see 5 to 10 moose per day, now I don't even want to guide moose hunters in some units because I know it might be tough to find 1 moose on a 5 day hunt!

[bearpaw]

Hunters need to oppose CNW every chance possible. We should always speak out loudly detailing how CNW does not have the best interests of hunters and trappers at heart. Explain to people that CNW helped eliminate hound hunting and trapping and will eliminate other forms of hunting if given the chance! DO NOT PARTNER with them, that only makes them stronger in the eyes of agencies like the WDFW and USFS.

[Bushcraft]

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go to bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

[bearpaw]

Remember this, the people of Idaho did not prevail on hunting wolves by partnering with CNW or any other wolf groups!

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

  STAND STRONG, we can't win by giving in to CNW or any other wolf groups!

[pianoman9701]

Hunters don't have the numbers to dictate their world.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. Even though our population represents a numerical minority in the grand scheme of things, there are far more sportsmen and women in this state than there are left-wing enviro-whackos.  We've got plenty of "number$" in the war chest. And, more importantly, we've got incredibly influential political allies that span the political spectrum that are willing to go bat for us...even though they might not feel inclined to come right out and say it in mixed company.     

You do live in WA, right? A wolf plan so outrageous in its scope as to prevent eventual management. Other predator management which is not designed around science. A governor who stacks the wildlife Commission with animal rights groups and also panders to those groups for campaign donations. And a population of hunters less than 4% of our state's population.