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Author Topic: Should 209 primers be legal?  (Read 8569 times)

Offline Bob33

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Should 209 primers be legal?
« on: October 04, 2017, 04:01:32 PM »
WDFW WILDLIFE PROGRAM
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov

Dear Elk and Deer Hunters,

As part of the outreach to the hunting public for the upcoming 2018-2020 three-year hunting season package, the Fish and Wildlife Commission requested the department include a discussion of muzzleloader equipment.  Therefore, we are conducting a short survey at this time that is specific to whether 209 primers should be allowed as part of the ignition system for muzzleloader firearms during muzzleloader seasons.  Currently, 209 primers or any primer designed to be used in centerfire cartridges are not allowed for muzzleloader hunting in Washington state except for muzzleloaders used during modern firearm seasons. 

Please take 5 minutes out of your busy schedule to answer the four questions in the survey at the link provided below.  The department will consider all survey input received before October 31 at 5:00 p.m.

Link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/N2JZMPG

Thank you for all that you do for wildlife in the state of Washington and thank you for your interest in hunting season development for the 2018-2020 seasons.

Respectfully,

Anis Aoude
Game Division manager
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline bowhunterforever

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 04:18:49 PM »
No
You know how to skin griz pilgram

Online Duckslayer89

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 04:27:51 PM »
I just got on here to post this. I say hell ya and keep the open sights rule. Washington is so wet and rainy let us use the 209 primers.

Offline Mfowl

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 04:29:38 PM »
No, you can use them during modern season already. Keep it a primitive weapon season.
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Offline CP

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 04:34:09 PM »
Yes.  Scopes too.

Offline steeleywhopper

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 04:38:46 PM »
Let us use 209,itís just an ignition source itís not turning a muzzy into a 7mm-08.

Offline cm2cb4

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 05:27:09 PM »
Just submitted the survey with a resounding yes. I wish I could have added a comment though. I think that 209 is fine as long as primitive / No 11 primer users get to hunt the last week of archery into the first week of October. Then 209 users get the first weekend of October up to modern rifle. After that, all can add scopes unless you have a medical reason for placing on a scope during muzzy season. Spreads the season out a bit and gives everyone a fair chance

Offline vandeman17

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 05:36:04 PM »
Just submitted the survey with a resounding yes. I wish I could have added a comment though. I think that 209 is fine as long as primitive / No 11 primer users get to hunt the last week of archery into the first week of October. Then 209 users get the first weekend of October up to modern rifle. After that, all can add scopes unless you have a medical reason for placing on a scope during muzzy season. Spreads the season out a bit and gives everyone a fair chance

In a word, no.
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline rackattack

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 05:44:17 PM »
Wish I could have commented on my no answer.  I like it the way it is, if you want a modern ignition system then go modern firearm season.  My worry is then muzzleloading success goes up and I lose more days that I can hunt. :twocents:

Offline Mallardmasher

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 05:58:57 PM »
No
[/quote

Nor should compound bows, carbon arrows or expanding broad heads. Right
I said yes, people are wrapping their breaches with siran wrap. Taping their barrel, we live in a rain forest. Anything to make your shot more powerful, it is not going to increase your range.
USN 1985-94, IBEW Local 46 1994-Present
Matt

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2017, 06:05:30 PM »
I had to put no.  Until WDFW determines if it is supposed to be a primitive season or muzzleloading season, I'll defer to primitive. If just a muzzleloading season then scopes/209/two barrels/etc would be fine, but I would need to see how they move seasons and adjust lengths first.
Let us use 209,itís just an ignition source itís not turning a muzzy into a 7mm-08.
maybe not that extreme, but it does add quite a bit to the muzzy.  The hottest #11 magnums or musket caps are really only good for about 110-120 gr of FFg or two pellets.  With the 209s you can go to 150+ gr or FFg or use three pellets.

Online Duckslayer89

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2017, 06:12:13 PM »
I had to put no.  Until WDFW determines if it is supposed to be a primitive season or muzzleloading season, I'll defer to primitive. If just a muzzleloading season then scopes/209/two barrels/etc would be fine, but I would need to see how they move seasons and adjust lengths first.
Let us use 209,itís just an ignition source itís not turning a muzzy into a 7mm-08.
maybe not that extreme, but it does add quite a bit to the muzzy.  The hottest #11 magnums or musket caps are really only good for about 110-120 gr of FFg or two pellets.  With the 209s you can go to 150+ gr or FFg or use three pellets.

I don't think the extra 50 grains really gives the bullet all that much more power but could be wrong

Offline Whitenuckles

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2017, 06:14:46 PM »
I don't muzzy hunt often. But I voted yes. Anything to advance the hunters agenda and not the tree huggers is a win in my book. :twocents:
GEAUX TIGERS

Offline CP

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2017, 06:16:21 PM »
I had to put no.  Until WDFW determines if it is supposed to be a primitive season or muzzleloading season, I'll defer to primitive. If just a muzzleloading season then scopes/209/two barrels/etc would be fine, but I would need to see how they move seasons and adjust lengths first.
Let us use 209,itís just an ignition source itís not turning a muzzy into a 7mm-08.
maybe not that extreme, but it does add quite a bit to the muzzy.  The hottest #11 magnums or musket caps are really only good for about 110-120 gr of FFg or two pellets.  With the 209s you can go to 150+ gr or FFg or use three pellets.

That's not my experience.  I shoot 209s at the range over chrono and the FPS difference over musket caps is insignificant.  velocity peaks around 110g and actually decreases with more powder -209 or MCs no difference

Offline tbotts

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2017, 06:16:38 PM »
i voted yes.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2017, 06:21:00 PM »
Preserving a system that fosters misfires due to a poor ignition system is not really an integral part of primitive weapons IMO.
YES permit different primers that allow the primitive weapon to work as its designed. 

Offline lonedave

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2017, 06:40:40 PM »
Definitely no and I do hunt the wet west side too.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2017, 06:42:35 PM »
ďIn common withĒ..... not so much!!

Offline cohochemist

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2017, 06:44:21 PM »
Not sure how a dual cam, carbon fiber bowtech fits the "primative" definitions either...  209 primers are safe, reliable and will help make cleaner kills... anything that can help drop an animal faster and more humanely I fully support.   

Offline Russ McDonald

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2017, 06:47:59 PM »
Not sure how a dual cam, carbon fiber bowtech fits the "primative" definitions either...  209 primers are safe, reliable and will help make cleaner kills... anything that can help drop an animal faster and more humanely I fully support.
:yeah:  you beat me to it.  Exactly what I wanted to say.
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Offline Odell

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2017, 06:50:43 PM »
yes
what in the wild wild world of sports???

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2017, 07:11:55 PM »
Definitely NO. You get better seasons than modern rifle because the odds are less that you will kill something while being provided a less crowded field at a better time. If you continue the process of improving the weapon then you deserve less time in the field and at a time when it is harder to hunt. For example the muzzie season for elk is right on the edge of the elk rut. Years ago they took this favorable time for hunting away from the bow hunters who obviously were using a weapon that provides much less of an opportunity for a kill than a muzzleloader. Suck it up and enjoy what you have already been given.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2017, 07:39:02 PM »
Just so you all know what I think I know - have shot several test range shoots, shooting Musket Caps, 11 caps, and 209's both the cooler ones and the Magnums across a chrono.  There is not a significant difference in velocity between any of them.

It does not increase accuracy of the rifle nor the range that each us can effectively shoot the rifle.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 08:46:05 PM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2017, 07:46:06 PM »
I don't see how so many people think the way that the gun goes off attracts more people and ups your chances of harvest?
How many of the guys saying that hunt with a muzzleloader?

I have no problem with a more reliable ignition system, it does not help increase any range.

Yes for me.
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Offline northwesthunter84

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Re: Should 209 primers be legal?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2017, 07:53:16 PM »
I voted yes, have shot both. No significant benefit between ignition systems as far as ballistics. Does the gun go off more frequently yes. So what you all are saying that having a gun that fails to fire or potentially misfires is a gun you prefer because it lowers the success ratio. It's muzzleloader season not a primitive weapons season, I can use a modern compound during that same season if I buy the tag. Next the limiting factor is actually range. I was around for this same discussion in Illinois when they first allowed muzzleloader use during shotgun season. It doubled the range but guess what success ratio were not increased much. I say keep it scope free and there is no difference. Why shouldn't people who bust their butt to get on animals enjoy success, it's not supposed to be a lottery when you pull the trigger, it should be the culmination of hard work and effort.

 

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