Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)

[bigmacc]

Any suggestions then?

After getting back I think I will stick with going with the odd/even system(based on the last digit of your wild ID). I will only speak of the Methow herd but I think other traditional muley herd areas are seeing the same. Hunter numbers were the most I have seen, predators were the most I have seen and deer numbers were the worst I have seen. My family celebrated our 100 year anniversary of hunting the Methow(started in 1917) and boy have there been changes! There are still a very few family and friends alive that tell stories going back into the late 1930,s and the 1940,s that made the trip to just sit around the fire and tell tales. We heard stories of respect for other hunters, staying out of another hunters way and lending a hand to a stranger. Stories of seeing another hunter and immediately turning and going the other way, stumbling on to a hunter in a spot , raising your hand in a salute and mouthing the word "sorry" then slowly, quietly getting the h@@@ out of their space. Stories of 2week seasons taking in 3 weekends, some liked the first part because of more "camping type" weather where the local deer were mostly taken(and the local deer herds were robust up until about 10 to 15 years ago) and then they would go home and the second wave of hunters would role in, folks with tents, wood stoves and chains for their rigs, they hunted the migrators because by the 2nd week(usually ran through the 1st week of Nov.) the big fellas were moving in with a mission. We heard stories of bountys on coyotes seeing a bear or cougar was very rare let alone killing one. Stories of real FISH and GAME agents visiting our camp for hours, sitting by the fire and listening to stories my dad and great grandparents would tell of migration routes, staging areas, and fawning areas that they knew of. A great and respected biologist (back in the 1970,s and 80,s that I'm sure some on here know of)that my dad and I convinced to start gateing roads so people couldn't park motorhomes and trailers in migration routes. Stories of seeing 50 to 100 deer per day and maybe 8 or 10 hunters in a week(now you can reverse those numbers, 50 to 100 hunters and 8 to 10 deer ). I have told these stories before, have thrown out ideas, have mentioned the "good old days" even got brave and posted some pics of our family history years ago but the bottom line is we have a history with these deer, this area and we care. I think all quality tags and doe tags should be done away with in the Methow, I think predators need to be controlled(if the state can't do it then we as hunters need to do it legally and ethicaly,) kill some yotes, buy a bear tag and a cougar tag. Lets face it(at least in the Methow) more and more land is being posted, more anti-hunting folks are moving there and for some reason(since the 2015 slaughter) more and more people are flocking there to hunt, I can't tell you how many folks I chatted with said it was the first time they hunted there and "heard" there were deer everywhere, some had hunted other parts of the state but "heard" there were deer behind every bush, they "heard" a lot of different things that they described to me that I haven't seen in over 20 years and even then most of what they "heard" was over-eggagerated and I know we will never see again even close to it in the Methow, one guy told me" I thought it was supposed to be easy to get a buck here, heck I haven't seen a doe in 4 days". My suggestion I guess,in a nut shell would be a 10 day season ending Oct 31st, no late permits, odd-even system so you are hunting it(Methow)every other year hopefully cutting hunting pressure in half. I know some will say that the Fish and Wildlife dept(they are no longer the GAME dept in my book) won't want loose money because of limiting tags, then double the cost of a tag and lic. for hunting the Methow, I would gladly pay double to hunt it on my year to hunt if it made a difference in quantity and quality of this herd. The next idea would be drawing 200 to 300 permits per unit from the Canadian border to Pateros and maybe getting drawn every 4,5 or 6 years, I myself like the every other year idea.

  I'd be honored to buy you a beer one of these days and chat about those times!

Would love to do that one day phool

[baldopepper]

I think one of the biggest problems is how well the deer have learned to read (lol)  Mule deer around my place are doing quite well, but they are very careful to stay behind the "no hunting " or "no trespassing" signs. Seriously, the amount of property that has been put off limits either due to straight no trespassing or "leased for hunting" has grown tremendously over the past few years. This privatization has served to squeeze more hunters into the open ground and provided a safe sanctuary for the deer.  I could have taken a couple of pictures during the hunt this year of nice bucks standing right behind "no hunting" signs, almost seemed like they were mocking the hunters that went by. Kind of off the thread topic, but I see this loss of ground as becoming as big a problem as the diminishing herds.  Around us the herd is doing well, but does'nt do much good if you can't get at em. Seems more and more across the west the only herds that are doing well are those that are located near or in large tracks of off limit ground. (of course the predators can't read as well as the deer, so it doesn't solve that problem)

[bigmacc]

I think one of the biggest problems is how well the deer have learned to read (lol)  Mule deer around my place are doing quite well, but they are very careful to stay behind the "no hunting " or "no trespassing" signs. Seriously, the amount of property that has been put off limits either due to straight no trespassing or "leased for hunting" has grown tremendously over the past few years. This privatization has served to squeeze more hunters into the open ground and provided a safe sanctuary for the deer.  I could have taken a couple of pictures during the hunt this year of nice bucks standing right behind "no hunting" signs, almost seemed like they were mocking the hunters that went by. Kind of off the thread topic, but I see this loss of ground as becoming as big a problem as the diminishing herds.  Around us the herd is doing well, but does'nt do much good if you can't get at em. Seems more and more across the west the only herds that are doing well are those that are located near or in large tracks of off limit ground. (of course the predators can't read as well as the deer, so it doesn't solve that problem)

As far as the Methow goes even the local deer herd is a mere shadow of what it once was, many have said including myself that it was nothing to see a hundred or more deer in all the fields all up and down the valley in August and September, heck all summer for that matter. Yes more and more land is being posted, fenced, habitat is shrinking with the influx of more and more people, is this the cause of the destruction of  this once strong and healthy herd?...its a contributor for sure but there is a lot more factors that have devastated this herd I,m afraid. Those tracts of posted land, private property that you mentioned are the only deer some folks seen over there this year, I talked to many that spent the whole season over there and the only deer they seen were the town deer and the yard pets, and their numbers are even in the toilet, a real shame....

[NRA4LIFE]

FWIW, I seen more deer in 218 this year than any other previous.  I haven't been hunting it real long, so take that in consideration.  I may have seen 1 legal buck but I was about 5 seconds too late.  I seen no less than 7 or 8 two points, one a giant.  It would be nice to see some season for those, maybe youth or 65 and older?  Or maybe open up one unit per year the first weekend to any buck and rotate the units.

[wolfbait]

I think one of the biggest problems is how well the deer have learned to read (lol)  Mule deer around my place are doing quite well, but they are very careful to stay behind the "no hunting " or "no trespassing" signs. Seriously, the amount of property that has been put off limits either due to straight no trespassing or "leased for hunting" has grown tremendously over the past few years. This privatization has served to squeeze more hunters into the open ground and provided a safe sanctuary for the deer.  I could have taken a couple of pictures during the hunt this year of nice bucks standing right behind "no hunting" signs, almost seemed like they were mocking the hunters that went by. Kind of off the thread topic, but I see this loss of ground as becoming as big a problem as the diminishing herds.  Around us the herd is doing well, but does'nt do much good if you can't get at em. Seems more and more across the west the only herds that are doing well are those that are located near or in large tracks of off limit ground. (of course the predators can't read as well as the deer, so it doesn't solve that problem)

As far as the Methow goes even the local deer herd is a mere shadow of what it once was, many have said including myself that it was nothing to see a hundred or more deer in all the fields all up and down the valley in August and September, heck all summer for that matter. Yes more and more land is being posted, fenced, habitat is shrinking with the influx of more and more people, is this the cause of the destruction of  this once strong and healthy herd?...its a contributor for sure but there is a lot more factors that have devastated this herd I,m afraid. Those tracts of posted land, private property that you mentioned are the only deer some folks seen over there this year, I talked to many that spent the whole season over there and the only deer they seen were the town deer and the yard pets, and their numbers are even in the toilet, a real shame....

For the last ten years or so there have been more deer bedding down next to rural homes etc., the reason is they have less fear of people then they do the predators. There would be far fewer deer if they did not have this protection against the predators.

Early summer when the whitetail does were having fawns, on two separate occasions we ran a wolf off, that was after the fawn/fawns. Talk to locals and they will tell you that seeing wolves is no big deal anymore, and then ask around about all the cougar sightings.

I know of four nice bucks that were taken during modern rifle that were town bucks. Those who claim because of homes there are less deer is false, in actuality it is just the opposite.

I think we have seen the last of migrating deer, there just isn't any left to migrate.

[predatorpro]

yall just keep driving roads and not kill anything and ill keep killing deer every year...no need to change anything

[NOCK NOCK]

That’s one hell of an attitude

[bigmacc]

That’s one hell of an attitude

 ...boy that came out of the cheap seats

[Boss .300 winmag]

I think one of the biggest problems is how well the deer have learned to read (lol)  Mule deer around my place are doing quite well, but they are very careful to stay behind the "no hunting " or "no trespassing" signs. Seriously, the amount of property that has been put off limits either due to straight no trespassing or "leased for hunting" has grown tremendously over the past few years. This privatization has served to squeeze more hunters into the open ground and provided a safe sanctuary for the deer.  I could have taken a couple of pictures during the hunt this year of nice bucks standing right behind "no hunting" signs, almost seemed like they were mocking the hunters that went by. Kind of off the thread topic, but I see this loss of ground as becoming as big a problem as the diminishing herds.  Around us the herd is doing well, but does'nt do much good if you can't get at em. Seems more and more across the west the only herds that are doing well are those that are located near or in large tracks of off limit ground. (of course the predators can't read as well as the deer, so it doesn't solve that problem)

As far as the Methow goes even the local deer herd is a mere shadow of what it once was, many have said including myself that it was nothing to see a hundred or more deer in all the fields all up and down the valley in August and September, heck all summer for that matter. Yes more and more land is being posted, fenced, habitat is shrinking with the influx of more and more people, is this the cause of the destruction of  this once strong and healthy herd?...its a contributor for sure but there is a lot more factors that have devastated this herd I,m afraid. Those tracts of posted land, private property that you mentioned are the only deer some folks seen over there this year, I talked to many that spent the whole season over there and the only deer they seen were the town deer and the yard pets, and their numbers are even in the toilet, a real shame....

For the last ten years or so there have been more deer bedding down next to rural homes etc., the reason is they have less fear of people then they do the predators. There would be far fewer deer if they did not have this protection against the predators.

Early summer when the whitetail does were having fawns, on two separate occasions we ran a wolf off, that was after the fawn/fawns. Talk to locals and they will tell you that seeing wolves is no big deal anymore, and then ask around about all the cougar sightings.

I know of four nice bucks that were taken during modern rifle that were town bucks. Those who claim because of homes there are less deer is false, in actuality it is just the opposite.

I think we have seen the last of migrating deer, there just isn't any left to migrate.

Not so my friend, I saw more deer this year than last year in my area, and it’s all migrating deer I hunt. But I do agree the Mule deer are in a decline in Washington. Just hope for mild winters, and some predator relief. 

But the moose numbers were really low compared to previous years, and wolf sign ways way up. 

[predatorpro]

That’s one hell of an attitude

just being honest....lol

[swanny]

I'm sticking with my "yes" vote.

This year, in the farmlands we hunt, I saw 3 of the biggest deer I've ever seen, one was taken by a member in our party. Winter must not have been to bad. While I never have been a trophy hunter, the larger more mature bucks are the way things should be. Knowing these guys are able to breed year in and year out benefits the herd, the hunters, and puts just that much more meat in my freezer. I loved seeing these big bucks around, made me think there was hope of something other than the smaller 3pt basket type bucks we tend to get. Generally our group goes 3 for 5 at least, this year it was 1 for 5, although it should have been 2 for 5, but that's a story in ethics for another time.

Now, anyone have a late blacktail spot they want to share with me? 

[NOCK NOCK]

That’s one hell of an attitude

just being honest....lol

Well at least your honest  ........I bet your caca don't stink either.

 

[lemondog]

It is real simple. Add population, reduce habitat, add wolves, restrict cougar and bear hunting methods and you will be very disappointed with an unlimited over the counter tag system. Weather you are a trophy hunter or an opportunity hunter. You will be mostly just be camping....O, then you won't need your guns either, so now they have a reason to take them away.....Give it 5 more years and see how you feel then. This state is going to be forced to go to a Nevada style limited draw for everyone....just reality and IMO the best thing that can happen..

[wolfbait]

I think one of the biggest problems is how well the deer have learned to read (lol)  Mule deer around my place are doing quite well, but they are very careful to stay behind the "no hunting " or "no trespassing" signs. Seriously, the amount of property that has been put off limits either due to straight no trespassing or "leased for hunting" has grown tremendously over the past few years. This privatization has served to squeeze more hunters into the open ground and provided a safe sanctuary for the deer.  I could have taken a couple of pictures during the hunt this year of nice bucks standing right behind "no hunting" signs, almost seemed like they were mocking the hunters that went by. Kind of off the thread topic, but I see this loss of ground as becoming as big a problem as the diminishing herds.  Around us the herd is doing well, but does'nt do much good if you can't get at em. Seems more and more across the west the only herds that are doing well are those that are located near or in large tracks of off limit ground. (of course the predators can't read as well as the deer, so it doesn't solve that problem)

As far as the Methow goes even the local deer herd is a mere shadow of what it once was, many have said including myself that it was nothing to see a hundred or more deer in all the fields all up and down the valley in August and September, heck all summer for that matter. Yes more and more land is being posted, fenced, habitat is shrinking with the influx of more and more people, is this the cause of the destruction of  this once strong and healthy herd?...its a contributor for sure but there is a lot more factors that have devastated this herd I,m afraid. Those tracts of posted land, private property that you mentioned are the only deer some folks seen over there this year, I talked to many that spent the whole season over there and the only deer they seen were the town deer and the yard pets, and their numbers are even in the toilet, a real shame....

For the last ten years or so there have been more deer bedding down next to rural homes etc., the reason is they have less fear of people then they do the predators. There would be far fewer deer if they did not have this protection against the predators.

Early summer when the whitetail does were having fawns, on two separate occasions we ran a wolf off, that was after the fawn/fawns. Talk to locals and they will tell you that seeing wolves is no big deal anymore, and then ask around about all the cougar sightings.

I know of four nice bucks that were taken during modern rifle that were town bucks. Those who claim because of homes there are less deer is false, in actuality it is just the opposite.

I think we have seen the last of migrating deer, there just isn't any left to migrate.

Not so my friend, I saw more deer this year than last year in my area, and it’s all migrating deer I hunt. But I do agree the Mule deer are in a decline in Washington. Just hope for mild winters, and some predator relief. 

But the moose numbers were really low compared to previous years, and wolf sign ways way up. 

I wish you were right, I truly do.

But I don't see that happening, what I see is the town deer and farm land mulies, plus the white tail being the last of the deer to survive mainly because they don't migrate, they live in back yards etc. where they have protection from the wolves and other predators.

I believe we are now seeing the beginning of the end.  Sad deal.

[idahohuntr]

I think one of the biggest problems is how well the deer have learned to read (lol)  Mule deer around my place are doing quite well, but they are very careful to stay behind the "no hunting " or "no trespassing" signs. Seriously, the amount of property that has been put off limits either due to straight no trespassing or "leased for hunting" has grown tremendously over the past few years. This privatization has served to squeeze more hunters into the open ground and provided a safe sanctuary for the deer.  I could have taken a couple of pictures during the hunt this year of nice bucks standing right behind "no hunting" signs, almost seemed like they were mocking the hunters that went by. Kind of off the thread topic, but I see this loss of ground as becoming as big a problem as the diminishing herds.  Around us the herd is doing well, but does'nt do much good if you can't get at em. Seems more and more across the west the only herds that are doing well are those that are located near or in large tracks of off limit ground. (of course the predators can't read as well as the deer, so it doesn't solve that problem)

As far as the Methow goes even the local deer herd is a mere shadow of what it once was, many have said including myself that it was nothing to see a hundred or more deer in all the fields all up and down the valley in August and September, heck all summer for that matter. Yes more and more land is being posted, fenced, habitat is shrinking with the influx of more and more people, is this the cause of the destruction of  this once strong and healthy herd?...its a contributor for sure but there is a lot more factors that have devastated this herd I,m afraid. Those tracts of posted land, private property that you mentioned are the only deer some folks seen over there this year, I talked to many that spent the whole season over there and the only deer they seen were the town deer and the yard pets, and their numbers are even in the toilet, a real shame....

For the last ten years or so there have been more deer bedding down next to rural homes etc., the reason is they have less fear of people then they do the predators. There would be far fewer deer if they did not have this protection against the predators.

Early summer when the whitetail does were having fawns, on two separate occasions we ran a wolf off, that was after the fawn/fawns. Talk to locals and they will tell you that seeing wolves is no big deal anymore, and then ask around about all the cougar sightings.

I know of four nice bucks that were taken during modern rifle that were town bucks. Those who claim because of homes there are less deer is false, in actuality it is just the opposite.

I think we have seen the last of migrating deer, there just isn't any left to migrate.

Not so my friend, I saw more deer this year than last year in my area, and it’s all migrating deer I hunt. But I do agree the Mule deer are in a decline in Washington. Just hope for mild winters, and some predator relief. 

But the moose numbers were really low compared to previous years, and wolf sign ways way up. 

I wish you were right, I truly do.

But I don't see that happening, what I see is the town deer and farm land mulies, plus the white tail being the last of the deer to survive mainly because they don't migrate, they live in back yards etc. where they have protection from the wolves and other predators.

I believe we are now seeing the beginning of the end.  Sad deal.

You have incorrectly predicted so many "ends" I have lost count.