Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)

[Oh Mah]

Ok just my op here ok,Lets slow down and start from the basics.
There are a few things that could be done we all agree on that.Some things have not even been brought up.We need real transparency in order to give real helpful input on this subject.

How many non resident tags are sold/success rate?

How many animals do we really have/male female ratio?

What is working with true stats in other states?

What is not working with true stats from other states.

What can be done to come to some kind of fair agreement between non native and native hunters in this state and others?

[hunter399]

I voted no when first started,without predator mangement,it won't help ,we need both.I just don't like permit system ,it's a cash cow for wdfw .All we need is to reward there mismangement with more money to piss to the wind. More regs,more predator mangement,more otc tags.

 Herds be damned huh? That's a great attitude.

 Since WDFW won't do their job and allow more predator control, you're okay with wiping out what's left..........another brilliant post!

So what's your life changeing plan ?

Permits will only help so much,without predator mangement.
Why do you think it has not gone permit already ,cause wdfw will let it get wiped out to sell as many otc,before the permit starts.
When it comes to management of wildlife there's a bill to pay and I already give them enough money.

 How about you point out the post where I suggested paying more money for less opportunity.

 Your posts show your selfish attitude, unfortunately it's shared by several members on this site. You admit that a permit system would help, but you are not for it unless it's combined with WDFW pulling their heads out of their collective ars's and increasing predator harvest.

 In a nutshell, you once again made my previous point.......the herds be damned unless you get what you want........we all got it..

So how many mule deer permits for the whole state?

Maybe I'm not hunting muley,can I buy whitetail only tag.

What about all that money from last minute tag buyers?

What if only 500 permits are you gonna be happy and buy a tag.

What if the tag now cost 150 dollars cause we gotta make up for money lost with no otc.

Answer some of these and maybe I'm with the permit system.

I may have a selfish attitude,but you know who's more selfish wdfw,all you that voted yes ,permits is good idea,but you might find yourself not liking the fine print that will come with permits.

[NOCK NOCK]

This is the 1st time in my 37 year hunting career that I have not notched a WA deer tag, not for lack of trying.
I voted no, and am sticking with it.........until I see a comprehensive plan.

There are multiple issues affecting the MD herds, addressing 1 or 2 of them (doe harvest/ every other year hunting) etc. is not the fixall  IMO.

I believe the vast majority of these issues (wolves is not one of them) can be achieved with a bit of coming together from all sides/positions of each issue. If all sides are willing to give a little, I feel that all sides can get a bit of what will make them happy, and more importantly, will benefit the herds in the long run.

I have what I believe is a well thought out plan, but it is still bouncing around in my head, I work 2 jobs and am trying to find the time to get it all compiled on paper.

Here are a couple of glimpses;
Some do not want to give up multi permits. They need to go bye bye, too much additional pressure.

Reduce time afield for all user groups. Allows all an opportunity to hunt, but takes away additional pressure/harvest.

Taking pressure off 1 herd (ie Methow) will only put more pressure on others (robbing Peter to pay Paul.) 

Reduce Late permit quotas. Cant keep taking out the good breeders

Stopping all antlerless(doe) hunts will only serve to overpopulate holding capacities of limited habitat.


That is only a very small portion of issues that need to be addressed, (and that are still in my head)

[hunter399]

Nock Nock I agree with your idea right now ,intell I see a management plan I'm sticking with no for permits.
Examples what can happen with permit is way out there.

They might start charging for each sub species,blacktail tag,whitetail tag ,muledeer permit,mule deer tag.There already talking about making people choose which side of state there hunting for deer,choose which tag your buying solves that.

Let's say permits for mule deer starts ,few years they see how much money they lost , then its back the way it is now.few years of conservation,for one good hunting  season Back where we are now.

Are you ready for mule deer to be like moose permits , you might be lucky to hunt mule deer before your dead.

Then there's cost of permits,cost of tag,how many tags,and if numbers are not set right it's not gonna help.

Now you have a lot of pressure on whitetail, from everybody that didn't draw mule deer tags how does that effect other species of deer.And quality of hunt,and do you lose money from hunters not buying tags few years down the road.

Wdfw does a good job at setting seasons,to keep hunters happy enough to buy tag , but may have to look at other options to help mule deer more.I'm more than willing to antler point regs ,slash a few days off season,no doe harvest,there has to be solution,and keep otc,if that's selfish then it is.

[JLS]

Reference the fixation on predator management, there is not a single thing keeping a lot of folks from killing a lot more coyotes and a lot more black Bears each and every year. I guess if it makes you feel better, focus on that. However I can give you examples of ranches that do not allow any predator hunting. And yet they still have good herd structure and good deer numbers on their places. It is not the singular answer to the bigger underlying problem.



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[bigmacc]

The "odd/even" system based on the last digit of your wild ID is very intriguing to me, if set up right it would cut mule deer hunting pressure in half which should in time help the herds as far as numbers and quality by aiding in escapement. Yes its not the only answer to the problem for some herds, as I,ve said the issue with some of these herds decline is multi headed and predator issues, doe tags and late quality hunts all need to be addressed. If some are worried that there hunting will be lessened you can still hunt elk, whitetail,blacktail or out of state for mule deer and oh yea how about those bear, cougar and coyotes, Its just those who hunt mule deer will only be able to do it every other year, IMO its better than a draw system where your at the mercy of being "drawn".  ..

[rosscrazyelk]

I voted yes.
I used to be a No way in hell are you taking my yearly opportunity away  from me  kinda guy.
I have prodominately been a archery guy for deer and take my niece out for modern season and the past few years have really opened my eyes at what's going on. Also after reading articles in other states and research stories. We definitely need to change the way we do things before there is nothing to hunt.

[Ironhead]

For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.

[trophyhunt]

Didn’t read the entire thread but how do you manage game when a certain population has very little to no rules on numbers taken?  Not sure what the fix is but everyone playing by the same rules would be a great start, agree or disagree ?

[trophyhunt]

But I also agree w most that predator control is the best way to help the herds.

[Duckslayer89]

  agree! I voted no. Not until everyone is on the same playing field on our public lands. Reservation land do whatever you do.

[Boss .300 winmag]

For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.

I think more restrictions couldn’t be put in place before a lottery, or every other year senerio system. No doe tags period, archery 3 point min, modern and muzzle loader 4 point minimum etc....

Heck freeze quality tags across the board for 5-7 years.

[hunter399]

For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.

The hunters pointing fingers at other hunters,instead of not looking at what's put mule deer in this state in danger,from past ,present,and changing for the future

They might start charging for each sub species,blacktail tag,whitetail tag ,muledeer permit,mule deer tag.There already talking about making people choose which side of state there hunting for deer,choose which tag your buying solves that.

Let's say permits for mule deer starts ,few years they see how much money they lost , then its back the way it is now.few years of conservation,for one good hunting  season Back where we are now.

Are you ready for mule deer to be like moose permits , you might be lucky to hunt mule deer before your dead.

Then there's cost of permits,cost of tag,how many tags,and if numbers are not set right it's not gonna help.

Now you have a lot of pressure on whitetail, from everybody that didn't draw mule deer tags how does that effect other species of deer.And quality of hunt,and do you lose money from hunters not buying tags few years down the road.

So how many mule deer permits for the whole state?

Maybe I'm not hunting muley,can I buy whitetail only tag for less money,since less opportunity.

What about all that money from last minute tag buyers?

What if only 500 permits are you gonna be happy and buy a permit

What if the tag now cost 150 dollars cause we gotta make up for money lost with no otc.

Answer some of these and maybe I'm with the permit system.It's great that people want to help with the permit system,but don't always consider all deer species in a whole, or all wildlife by only helping mule deer you may hurt other wildlife,effect cost of tags,ect.
How about odd/even on who hunts at all for the year ,and conserve all deer species across the board.only problem is wdfw want there money,if theres no money for wdfw,Theres no hunting in our state at all.Everbody that wants permits can't seem to answer the tough questions that come with Permits.Maybe that's why wdfw is pushing so hard for choose which side of the state your hunting for deer,to keep some of the herds of people on there own side of state and save a mule deer.

[Oh Mah]

I dont know i guess how bad it is,some members here are painting a very bleak picture but no stats to go with it.Jumping on the hunters that vote no change without stats is to say the least unfair.if its as bad as is being said then i guess not very many deer were taken this year by hunters.The only post that made sense in this entire thread is the one explaining cause and effect,do we have a decent not great deer population to environment ratio?Questions like this need answered before fingers get pointed rates go up or opportunities taken away. 

[NOCK NOCK]

For those that voted NO...
What is it going to take for you to realize that the Mule Deer in Washington State are in serious trouble and that we need to change from the status quo.
I am embarrassed by this mentality in our state. Go hunt any other Western State(except CA) and see what descent Deer hunting is like. It is night and day from Washington.
The 139 people that said no change, should be ashamed, that their opportunity to Mule Deer hunt in Washington every year is more important than the over all health of the Herd.
I thought hunters were conservationists, not these 139 people.

Have you read the entire thread?
I voted No, and I can assure you that I DO realize our MD are in serious trouble. (others that voted no have echoed this too)

What I am not willing to do, is to jump in head first while not knowing how deep the water is.
Yes, a lot of things need to change, but until I see a well thought out comprehensive plan, I will remain a no vote.

This is the 1st time in my 37 year hunting career that I have not notched a WA deer tag, not for lack of trying.
I voted no, and am sticking with it.........until I see a comprehensive plan.

There are multiple issues affecting the MD herds, addressing 1 or 2 of them (doe harvest/ every other year hunting) etc. is not the fixall  IMO.

I believe the vast majority of these issues (wolves is not one of them) can be achieved with a bit of coming together from all sides/positions of each issue. If all sides are willing to give a little, I feel that all sides can get a bit of what will make them happy, and more importantly, will benefit the herds in the long run.

I have what I believe is a well thought out plan, but it is still bouncing around in my head, I work 2 jobs and am trying to find the time to get it all compiled on paper.

Here are a couple of glimpses;
Some do not want to give up multi permits. They need to go bye bye, too much additional pressure.

Reduce time afield for all user groups. Allows all an opportunity to hunt, but takes away additional pressure/harvest.

Taking pressure off 1 herd (ie Methow) will only put more pressure on others (robbing Peter to pay Paul.) 

Reduce Late permit quotas. Cant keep taking out the good breeders

Stopping all antlerless(doe) hunts will only serve to overpopulate holding capacities of limited habitat.


That is only a very small portion of issues that need to be addressed, (and that are still in my head)