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Author Topic: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou  (Read 4155 times)

Offline wolfbait

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Offline Old Man8383

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 04:33:52 PM »
Bringing in the last remnants of an endangered species population for protection is a daunting task.  It's been done before with other species with some success at saving the population.  I am sure there will challenges.   Hats off to the Kalispell tribe for stepping forward to take this job on and the USFWS funding.  But I do have some questions, who are or why aren't the sportsman/ conservation groups stepping forward to help?  We're "all in" this together.  Haven't we learned anything yet?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 05:33:32 PM by Old Man8383 »

Offline JL

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 05:57:21 PM »
Old Man, I would go so far as to say I've spent more time in their habitat than most this year. I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to take a stance on the "predators," but will say the wolf population up there is far beyond what's been suggested, based on everything I've read and observed. Caribou are a herd animal. The herd is their protection. I don't think you can rebuild a depleted caribou herd when wolves are on them (in far greater numbers) like bees on honey. Based on what I've seen, the elk aren't hanging out in there either. They're basically sprinting through that area. I agree w/ your post completely and don't mean to come across the wrong way. Sure you're more knowledgeable than I am. I do have multiple trail cam photos of wolves from this fall I can share w/ the Tribe or sportsmen groups ...PM me.

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 07:37:58 AM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 08:44:09 AM »
Why isn't anyone suing the USFWS and state wildlife agencies for signing the death certificates of these animals by introducing an apex predator?
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 02:24:45 PM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 05:24:59 PM »
I could not find out readily where the grants for this project came from but it would seem a pretty good chance it was Pittman-Robertson funds. If so I would say Sportsman are doing their part.
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 05:41:01 PM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Good luck on this, I hope it helps the herd, we are really close to losing a specie that is in serious peril. Glad to hear you are removing some of the wolves but as you said there are a lot of lion and bear in that country too, more of them than wolves! I'm extremely disappointed that WDFW hasn't tried to do more for these caribou when we are spending millions on wolves that were never endangered!
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 05:42:18 PM »
I could not find out readily where the grants for this project came from but it would seem a pretty good chance it was Pittman-Robertson funds. If so I would say Sportsman are doing their part.

They said USFWS funds, that is probably PR funds from sportsmen!  :tup:
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 06:23:17 PM »
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2017, 09:37:23 PM »
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


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It is just north of Revelstoke B.C.
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 10:36:47 PM »
I thought I read at one point that the pen was not in the US. True? 


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It is just north of Revelstoke B.C.

hhhmmmm
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 07:09:25 AM »
Having worked with an animal or two late in gestation, you can expect significant loss just from the handling.  Timing and release from just 18 acres will be tricky, good luck

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2017, 07:53:50 AM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2017, 08:40:55 AM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2017, 01:53:19 PM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.

The Caribou shed I found wasn't.   :twocents:

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2017, 04:51:30 PM »
Seems strange, Canada with a wealth of wolf experience, works hard to reduce the number of predators taking out what little is left of the woodlands and we spend money and build fences for an animal that needs big territory.  Are they feeding them and dipping navels?  Asking the Laps for management ideas?  How much fence does $96,000 build in a remote wilderness?  Will the fence actually help the canids take caribou (probably impossible to keep the wolves out of the enclosure)?
The "fence" is really a temporary holding area (19 acres) for cows during calving.  We are going to capture the pregnant cows and hold them in the pen to calve to give the neonates a chance to grow a few weeks before releasing them.  Our current calf survival is low, and we think we are loosing them as neonates.

The pen will also provide an opportunity to test a "soft release" strategy for augmentation animals.  The last augmentation went badly.  The animals were dropped into a new area and never met up with the resident herd, they scattered all over the place and most died.  Hopefully the new animals will mother up to the resident animals while calving in the maternal pen.

Wolf removal has been effective and on going in the area. Wolves are collared and killed if they come into the recovery area.  Currently, I am less worried about them than losses from lions, bears and HWY 3.

Are there plans for augmentation?

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2017, 07:31:23 AM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


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It's about 12 miles north of the border near Salmo BC.

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2017, 10:07:02 PM »
Maybe try OTC spring bear, aggressive wolf seasons, and allow vastly more lion harvest and with dogs.  Until WDFW actually begins to manage predators it's all smoke and mirrors. 
 I found a Caribou shed, and have unbelievable concentrations of all three major predators in that same drainage on my cameras.  You're fooling yourself, and grossly wasting public resources by not dealing aggressively with the real problem.   :sry:

It’s in Canada.


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It's about 12 miles north of the border near Salmo BC.

Are there two of these pens then? I saw pictures of one farther north. Perhaps that one is targeted at another herd?
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2017, 12:22:51 PM »
yes- actually there are three pens .  Two further north (Peace River area and Revelstoke) as well as the new one in the Selkirks.

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2017, 12:39:08 PM »
Too little, too late.
I could care less about what anybody says..............

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2017, 01:09:53 PM »
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action. 

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2017, 01:29:59 PM »
I agree. We need Arial gunning of wolves and coyotes!

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2017, 02:22:20 PM »
How was it determined that 19 acres are sufficient?

1 cow per enclosure?
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2017, 02:24:25 PM »
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action.


Question for you : Why are the Conservation groups, CNW, so interested in saving the wolf than the Woodland Caribou ? Is it the money they earn from the taxpayers paying off lawsuits or threatened lawsuits ? There has to be a reason that is not being told to the public.
I could care less about what anybody says..............

 

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