Major wdfw overhaul

[Special T]

As sportsmen we are swinging for the fence with every suggestion for change. By building a coalition we effect solid change issue by issue we can agree on, and support by our numbers.

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[pianoman9701]

Why do we need to attend meetings? Nowadays everything can be done online. They are always asking for input through online surveys/questionnaires, and I usually give them feedback. It even seems that at least in a couple instances, they used my suggestions, although it could have just been a coincidence that what I asked for, I got when the new regulations/seasons were published. However, they haven't yet taken me seriously when I have asked them to force the tribal hunters to follow the same rules that we do.   

Why would they? The have no power to affect changes in Federal treaties.

They could do something if they wanted to. But they obviously don't. Not change the treaty, but some sort of co-management where the Yakama tribe isn't killing more than what is sustainable. I find it hard to believe the WDFW can do nothing to control the number of deer and elk killed by the Yakama tribe, when they DO have a say in how many bighorn sheep and mountain goat they are allowed to harvest.

Believe it or don't. The WDFW has no say on treaty rights. Treaties are federal and the US Congress passes them. I believe they're signed into law by the President. The WDFW may be able to regulate them on bighorn sheep and goats because they were hunted out completely at the time of the drafting of the treaties - I have no idea. If you want to change the way the Yakima or any other tribe harvest animals, you've got to approach the tribal council.

Do you even actually know how many deer and elk the Yakimas harvest each year? @bobcat

[Special T]

I like the idea of a coalition, ST. You'd need to first start an organization that has a name that says what it is. WA Sporting Organization Coalition, for example.Come up with a mission statement that's clear and concise which basically says the organization's purpose is to combine the strength of as many individual orgs as possible to promote better hunting access, reform outdated and ineffective regulation, and represent sportsman to state agencies and the legislature in matters which affect the present and future of our sporting heritage. I would think that you'd have a list of all the separate organizations and on each issue, you'd confirm the support of each organization. There may be issues of which backcountry Anglers and the Elk Foundation won't both be on the same side. Then the organizations who do latch onto a specific "cause" for lack of a better word, would each contact their members to get involved - email or letters, attend meetings, protests, whatever is planned.

Is that something like you were thinking?

This is what I've been thinking. And the first step is meeting each other, talking and finding out where our common goals can bring us together.  Too often we seem to focus on where we disagree, and not enough time on where we do.

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[Southpole]

How about have the dept. come to us on the forum, that'd be a lot easier  or have someone print out threads like these, put them in a folder and send it to them.

I think there is value in the WDFW coming on here to get the pulse of thier major stakeholder. The problem appears to be that they are unsure about a great many things. They don't really treat thier job like the private sector does and can't seem to relate. If you or I were hearing a lot of complaints, or didn't understand why a large portion of our customers were in revolt we would probably seek them out and just chat to try and get to source of the issue or some kind of well thought out remedy.

I think the department operates out of fear. They choose not to be proactive and engage. I belive that BECAUSE they don't actively engage a lot of false quasi truths get spread.
Cases In point some mayremeber WDFWinsider whom worked in the office. I think it was special permits or something.  He talked in general terms about the department, his job and general info about the Department. He was told to stop coming on here. When he was fired for "dating his boss"  he came back on here while looking for a job. He couldn't find one because had been blackmailed for talking about the department. I belive most of his discussions were professional in nature.

Big Tex hides his identity like it was a nuclear launch code. 90% of his responce s are educational in nature the other 10% are thought out responce s to posses off folks about infractions or rules.

The department appears to like it's insulation from us, and much of it has a hard time relating.

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Wow, who do they think they are the FBI/special ops or something  . 

[Special T]

How about have the dept. come to us on the forum, that'd be a lot easier  or have someone print out threads like these, put them in a folder and send it to them.

I think there is value in the WDFW coming on here to get the pulse of thier major stakeholder. The problem appears to be that they are unsure about a great many things. They don't really treat thier job like the private sector does and can't seem to relate. If you or I were hearing a lot of complaints, or didn't understand why a large portion of our customers were in revolt we would probably seek them out and just chat to try and get to source of the issue or some kind of well thought out remedy.

I think the department operates out of fear. They choose not to be proactive and engage. I belive that BECAUSE they don't actively engage a lot of false quasi truths get spread.
Cases In point some mayremeber WDFWinsider whom worked in the office. I think it was special permits or something.  He talked in general terms about the department, his job and general info about the Department. He was told to stop coming on here. When he was fired for "dating his boss"  he came back on here while looking for a job. He couldn't find one because had been blackmailed for talking about the department. I belive most of his discussions were professional in nature.

Big Tex hides his identity like it was a nuclear launch code. 90% of his responce s are educational in nature the other 10% are thought out responce s to posses off folks about infractions or rules.

The department appears to like it's insulation from us, and much of it has a hard time relating.

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Wow, who do they think they are the FBI/special ops or something  .

Lol no...

But we know from history and private conversations that all manner of folks keep tabs on this forum and don't contribute, or if they do it isn't much. I don't remember thier names or handles but know we have a few state Reps that are members. I also know some department employees whom are sportsmen that check this place out but never post. 2c

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[bigtex]

Why do we need to attend meetings? Nowadays everything can be done online. They are always asking for input through online surveys/questionnaires, and I usually give them feedback. It even seems that at least in a couple instances, they used my suggestions, although it could have just been a coincidence that what I asked for, I got when the new regulations/seasons were published. However, they haven't yet taken me seriously when I have asked them to force the tribal hunters to follow the same rules that we do.   

Why would they? The have no power to affect changes in Federal treaties.

They could do something if they wanted to. But they obviously don't. Not change the treaty, but some sort of co-management where the Yakama tribe isn't killing more than what is sustainable. I find it hard to believe the WDFW can do nothing to control the number of deer and elk killed by the Yakama tribe, when they DO have a say in how many bighorn sheep and mountain goat they are allowed to harvest.

Believe it or don't. The WDFW has no say on treaty rights. Treaties are federal and the US Congress passes them. I believe they're signed into law by the President. The WDFW may be able to regulate them on bighorn sheep and goats because they were hunted out completely at the time of the drafting of the treaties - I have no idea. If you want to change the way the Yakima or any other tribe harvest animals, you've got to approach the tribal council.

Do you even actually know how many deer and elk the Yakimas harvest each year?

WDFW has about the same amount of ability to change the treaties with tribes as they would with the Iran nuclear deal.

Realistically, the tribes can say F you to WDFW on just about everything WDFW asks as long as it falls within their treaty rights.

[Humptulips]

Public meetings and WDFWs participation in forum discussions sounds like a very democratic idea but I don't believe they have much value.
One or two guys setting down with the Agency with well thought out ideas have a better chance of making changes but they need that membership behind them to be listened to.
I can well understand why Department personnel do not want to go to a public meeting or come on here. Everybody has a different idea of how things should be done, many of them not well thought out and sometimes just wacky. Plus many think when they get an agency worker on the spot it's time to rake them over the coals.

When you have a problem  with something you need to have a well thought out solution that doesn't create more problems or nobody is going to listen to you and it helps if you are on a first name basis with staff.

[Special T]

Public meetings and WDFWs participation in forum discussions sounds like a very democratic idea but I don't believe they have much value.
One or two guys setting down with the Agency with well thought out ideas have a better chance of making changes but they need that membership behind them to be listened to.
I can well understand why Department personnel do not want to go to a public meeting or come on here. Everybody has a different idea of how things should be done, many of them not well thought out and sometimes just wacky. Plus many think when they get an agency worker on the spot it's time to rake them over the coals.

When you have a problem  with something you need to have a well thought out solution that doesn't create more problems or nobody is going to listen to you and it helps if you are on a first name basis with staff.

Bingo

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[bigtex]

Public meetings and WDFWs participation in forum discussions sounds like a very democratic idea but I don't believe they have much value.
One or two guys setting down with the Agency with well thought out ideas have a better chance of making changes but they need that membership behind them to be listened to.
I can well understand why Department personnel do not want to go to a public meeting or come on here. Everybody has a different idea of how things should be done, many of them not well thought out and sometimes just wacky. Plus many think when they get an agency worker on the spot it's time to rake them over the coals.

When you have a problem  with something you need to have a well thought out solution that doesn't create more problems or nobody is going to listen to you and it helps if you are on a first name basis with staff.

[wolfbait]

No it doesn't. If they want input from all hunters there should be meetings held in each corner of the state, not just the biggest cities where they get urban input.

So...you'd get more than the 7 people who came to Spokane if you held the meeting in Republic? C'mon now.
Yes I've watched the video, thanks.
So are you saying that it's futile and it doesn't make a difference to give input.
See the list of public meetings that we didn't attend?
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/
Below that see Public Comment on specific rule proposals will happen in February 2018??
Maybe comment in Feb??
Maybe call your local wildlife bio?? 

Ok, now I'm out.

What's the department supposed to do, go to every county in the state? I don't know of a department in any state that does that. And if they did, the process would get even longer.

People will always complain about anything. Have a meeting in Colville, well *censored* why wasn't it in Chewelah, I don't want to drive to Colville.

If I remember right it was and is WDFW who refuse to confirm wolf packs unless forced to do so, refuse to confirm wolf predation on livestock, and came out with the BS wolf plan.

Trying to put lipstick on WDFW and make them look pretty just isn't going to work, I don't see WDFW as separate from CNW, DoW etc. they appear to be one and the same.

Pushing the agenda of no hunting through the protection of predators.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Upcoming public meeting to discuss budget issues and planning:

 http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/nov1717b/

As has been said in the past, these type meetings are scheduled regularily on a Mon-Fri, 9 to 5 type schedule.

What would be the chances of getting meeting scheduled outside those hours, like a evening set of hours after the average work day for most ends or even a weekend day, again giving more that may want to attend but can't due to their work. 

The other side of this is, if the meetings were to be scheduled during off times, how many people would really take time to attend? 

If WDFW did this and it didn't increase attendance, then there would be no reason for hunters & fishers to complain about having a reasonable opportunity to attend and voice concerns.

Is there any chance that meeting times or days could be changed @bigtex, or is just set in bureaucratic stone and that's it?

[bearpaw]

No it doesn't. If they want input from all hunters there should be meetings held in each corner of the state, not just the biggest cities where they get urban input.

So...you'd get more than the 7 people who came to Spokane if you held the meeting in Republic? C'mon now.
Yes I've watched the video, thanks.
So are you saying that it's futile and it doesn't make a difference to give input.
See the list of public meetings that we didn't attend?
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/
Below that see Public Comment on specific rule proposals will happen in February 2018??
Maybe comment in Feb??
Maybe call your local wildlife bio?? 

Ok, now I'm out.

I bet it would be standing room only if they held a meeting in Republic! I think the meetings in these cities are mostly a dog and pony show which are held in areas which are easy for WDFW to attend, then WDFW can say they held public meetings. Then when hunters who live hundreds of miles away don't attend they say we don't care. That's exactly what has happened. WDFW holds several meetings a year, there's no reason they all have to be in a few major cities, they could be in a few rural areas, let the WDFW drive hundreds of miles for a change, aren't they being paid to serve the public? Maybe they forgot that too? 

I honestly do not think WDFW wants to listen to folks in rural areas, they would rather listen to the praising they get in the cities! 



I'm not saying it's not important for sportsmen to be heard, if we don't get our views documented then WDFW will say hunters had no other opinion. I know I've attended many of these WDFW meetings through the years. Many groups like RMEF and MDF are focused on habitat, which is important too, but they won't tackle the politics of hunting, so it seems SCI is one of the best options for political purposes. I remember Hunter's Heritage tried to get hound hunting and trapping back and I have supported them in the past too, they seem like a good group, maybe more of us need to support them like Humptulips mentioned?

I applaud SpecialT for wanting to make a difference, you certainly have my support, I'm anxious to see what you get going, I most definitely hope you can find a way to make a difference! Maybe you can be more effective at getting involved and rallying an existing group that already has numbers? Something to consider!

The fishermen have a pretty effective group, they are much more organized, if hunters could somehow come together like the fishermen have, we could probably be more effective.

[bearpaw]

Public meetings and WDFWs participation in forum discussions sounds like a very democratic idea but I don't believe they have much value.
One or two guys setting down with the Agency with well thought out ideas have a better chance of making changes but they need that membership behind them to be listened to.
I can well understand why Department personnel do not want to go to a public meeting or come on here. Everybody has a different idea of how things should be done, many of them not well thought out and sometimes just wacky. Plus many think when they get an agency worker on the spot it's time to rake them over the coals.

When you have a problem  with something you need to have a well thought out solution that doesn't create more problems or nobody is going to listen to you and it helps if you are on a first name basis with staff.

Many people are very bitter and getting more bitter every year. You are correct, I have to agree with most of your comments, thanks for offering sound advice!

[Humptulips]

Unhappy with the location or timing of meetings? Here is a thought.
F&W Commission meetings always extend into Saturday. They have open comment periods. You can comment on anything you wish. Does not have to be related to any of the other business of the Commission that day although it helps.
Make your case for meetings more friendly to the average guy. You'll have 3 minutes so don't go off on a tangent.
Can't attend? You can send in a written response as long as you want. Warning though, you better have some well thought out reasoning and short and concise will be read.
I doubt if one commenter or letter will make a difference but if they heard the same thing from a bunch of people I bet they will listen. 

[HuntinCrazy]

I've thought about a boycott but I figured half the guys would just take advantage of the other half not being in the woods. 20,000 plus members on here, an organized march on wdfw Olympia maybe? Don't know, just throwing out ideas

Im in ......Its time we ALL stand together! We have our site to spread the word.