Multiple wolf packs in the Methow Valley?

[jackelope]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


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[wolfbait]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


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There are several folks in Okanogan county that would say "you are either a liar, or you don't know what you are talking about". I would have to agree with them.

[Dick in the Dirt]

Up Boulder Cr. getting a tree last week end, wolf tracks there. Kind of sad one has to pack now to avoid being a meal. It is going to happen, just a matter of when.

[Alchase]

Nothing new about the packs.   I always said there were multiple packs and listed where.   They always chalked em up as one pack which I knew as total BS.


I joked about how well travelled those lookout wolves were

In 2014 the Lookout pack was up the Twisp Valley, killing a calf above Davis Lake and I saw two above Lightning Creek all in the same day!

Yep they are a traveling pack, LOL

Now they call those northenders the Loop Loop pack
 
Must have taken three years just to come up with a name?

[jackelope]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


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There are several folks in Okanogan county that would say "you are either a liar, or you don't know what you are talking about". I would have to agree with them.

You keep saying that, but no evidence to support it. Ever. 


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[idahohuntr]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


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There are several folks in Okanogan county that would say "you are either a liar, or you don't know what you are talking about". I would have to agree with them.

There are a large number of folks across the state who would say you are a liar or you don't know what you are talking about.  52 collared cougars? Chemtrails? Pics of coyotes you call wolf pups?

[Alchase]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


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There are several folks in Okanogan county that would say "you are either a liar, or you don't know what you are talking about". I would have to agree with them.

Why would you call someone a liar when he is stating a fact that has not been disproven whether you believe they were planted or not?
Many have asked to see anything evidence that could prove wolves have been planted including myself. Yet over the last 10 years nothing has ever been posted to backup the “wolf plant” story.
I am know wolf export, and I have not had to live in their vicinity like you guys in the Methow or other wolf areas.
Honestly Wolbait, if you had convincing evidence to support the “planting” showing it here would gain thousands of voices in support of your “planted wolves” hypothesis.

No need for name calling either way.

[Dan-o]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


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There are several folks in Okanogan county that would say "you are either a liar, or you don't know what you are talking about". I would have to agree with them.

Why would you call someone a liar when he is stating a fact that has not been disproven whether you believe they were planted or not?
Many have asked to see anything evidence that could prove wolves have been planted including myself. Yet over the last 10 years nothing has ever been posted to backup the “wolf plant” story.
I am know wolf export, and I have not had to live in their vicinity like you guys in the Methow or other wolf areas.
Honestly Wolbait, if you had convincing evidence to support the “planting” showing it here would gain thousands of voices in support of your “planted wolves” hypothesis.

No need for name calling either way.

 

There is NO evidence that wolves have been planted in Washington.   

The evidence has been requested so many times it's tiring.

I can't conceive of the WDFW being able to do an actual wolf release without evidence.   Can you?   

How would you see that going down?

Where would they raise/feed/house them?

Were the employees sworn to secrecy?

There has to be something more tangible than "Somebody said so."

[nwwanderer]

Draw a 500 radius circle around the central Idaho release site, that is a rather conservative size.  I do not think that WDFW was/is up to the task but the feds, that is a dog of a different breed/size/character.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Nothing new about the packs.   I always said there were multiple packs and listed where.   They always chalked em up as one pack which I knew as total BS.


I joked about how well travelled those lookout wolves were

In 2014 the Lookout pack was up the Twisp Valley, killing a calf above Davis Lake and I saw two above Lightning Creek all in the same day!

Yep they are a traveling pack, LOL

I don't know the area that well, but I know wolf packs are not as cohesive as some folks think.  If Davis Lake and Lightening Creek are the ones I'm thinking of, they're only ~5 miles apart... which means absolutely nothing to a wolf, they are literally minutes apart.

Wolves from the same pack can be scattered out pretty far and wide, so it would not be impossible (or even improbable) for the same pack to have animals in different portions of their home range.  That happens quite a bit.

[pianoman9701]

As long as there are cougars and wolves hunting the same territory kiss the deer & elk good bye.
We gives the game department the right to release these POS wolves any way?

They didn’t release any wolves....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are several folks in Okanogan county that would say "you are either a liar, or you don't know what you are talking about". I would have to agree with them.

Why would you call someone a liar when he is stating a fact that has not been disproven whether you believe they were planted or not?
Many have asked to see anything evidence that could prove wolves have been planted including myself. Yet over the last 10 years nothing has ever been posted to backup the “wolf plant” story.
I am know wolf export, and I have not had to live in their vicinity like you guys in the Methow or other wolf areas.
Honestly Wolbait, if you had convincing evidence to support the “planting” showing it here would gain thousands of voices in support of your “planted wolves” hypothesis.

No need for name calling either way.

[pianoman9701]

I don't have a hard time believing there is more than one pack up there.
I have a hard time believing there were ever 52 collared cougars. Previous comments about cougar territorialism are spot on. Dominant males will kill or drive out any other males in their territory.
WDFW never needed to release wolves. They moved on their own unless you have video evidence to the contrary. We have documented evidence of wolves travelling several hundreds of miles and starting new packs.
Keep the discussion civil without pointing fingers and calling names. Telling another forum member he's a liar is unacceptable. This is why hunters can't coordinate when it's really important that we do.

[wolfbait]

If there is one way to get most of the pro-wolf crowd out, it's to state WDF&wolves released wolves in WA, and they did.


I remember two releases that really stood out, several WDFW rigs on the county road watching collared wolves just released run across the hillside.

The very same time frame another release in lower Alder Cr, which a UPS guy caught them doing, he was promptly told he didn't see what he thought he saw and in a week he was moved to another route.

A few days later the wolves killed a cow and calf and both WDFW and the USFWS ran to the papers and lied about it.

Talk to a county commissioner who told me of six releases he knew about, I knew of five at that time.

Funny how the pro-wolf crowd always leaps to their feet and exclaim there were no wolf releases in WA?


Alchace, I don’t include you in the pro-wolf crowd, you ask why folks in Okanogan County would call Jackalope a liar, if you read back I said he is either a liar or he doesn’t know what he is talking about, you chose liar,

Why is the pro-wolf crowd so adamant that WDFW didn’t release wolves?

See, WDFW gave us the worst wolf plan in the lower 48, they refuse to confirm wolf packs unless forced to do so through livestock predation, refuse to confirm livestock predation.

They lied about the wolves of the 1980’s and 90’s.

Why would WDFW protect predators over ungulates? Why would they want the game herds decimated?



Those are questions you should be asking.

And while you are at it, ask yourself why the USFWS, WDF&wolves and CNW can’t get their story straight on where the wolves came from.


Where Did Washington’s Wolves Come From?

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Northern Rocky Mountain Recovery Program Update

2008

Until 2008, no wild wolves had been confirmed west of the DPS boundary in Washington or Oregon. However, in July 2008, a wolf pack (2 adults and 6 pups) was discovered near Twisp, WA (just east of the North Cascades and west of the DPS boundary). Genetic testing showed these wolves did not originate from the NRM DPS; instead they apparently dispersed southward from the wolf population in southcentral British Columbia. Both adults were radio-collared and the pack is being monitored via radio telemetry by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. If this pack persists it will remain separated and distinct from the NRM DPS by the large expanse of unsuitable wolf habitat in eastern WA and OR.

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf

DNA samples confirm gray wolves are back in Methow Valley By Joyce Campbell
Methow Valley News
July 24, 2008

DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.”

http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley

Is there a difference between “southcentral British Columbia” and “northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada”?

Perhaps the USFWS and WDFW should have gotten their story straight as to where they were going to say the wolves came from? I guess they couldn’t say, we hauled them in from Idaho with horse trailers, it just wouldn’t fit the narrative of: (“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.” )

*Update* – June 13, 2014:

“DNA obtained from Lookout Pack wolves has shown they are descendents of wolves living in coastal British Columbia”, who lived separately from inland wolves for many generations, “Conservation Northwest” said in a press release.

 http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/


http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/


The one thing that I have lost all hope in is that anyone will ever be held accountable, not that it matters at this point, WA is finished.

The game herds will be decimated, and what will be WDF&wolves excuse for their lack of management?

[pianoman9701]

Wolfbait, you frequently label everyone who disagrees with anything you say as the "pro-wolf crowd". Not only is that inaccurate - I see no benefit to having wolves in WA as they currently exist - it's disingenuous. You sometimes put up useful information. Sometimes, not so much. You often turn on people who would normally agree with your stance on wolves. Not a great trait and certainly not one which will advance your views on this forum. It'd be of great benefit to you to stop attacking other concerned hunters.  When you make claims that on the face seem outrageous, video or photographic evidence wouldn't hurt your credibility at all. Otherwise, it's going to be viewed as unsubstantiated rumor and hyperbole.

[boneaddict]

I have a hard time believing there were ever 52 collared cougars.

THe person to ask would probably be Steve Reynaud.  I think he was the one running them.  52 isnt that hard to believe.  I think 4 out of the last 5 cats I have seen in the methow were collared. (excluding kittens). 


Transparancy or acute lack there of is one of the reasons no one believes the WDFW.

THere are alot of wolves in the Methow Valley.   Its a joke that they were lumped into the lookout pack. (which they publicly claimed was down to two animals)  Its basically why we either think they are stupid or they are liars.  If they have an agenda, and they must, it would have been nice if they declared it.  Basically they treat everyone like they are idiots or conspiracy theorists and we do the same to them.

Then there is a batch of you that want written proof.  Documents, herd counts etc.  and you believe every word they tell you.  LOL! 

The bottom line is there is something going on.  You are being kept in the dark and the mule deer are suffering from it and every other card that is being thrown at them.