School me on ARs

[jdb]

I've never been an ar guy, nothing against them they just don't do much for me until....I was in a lgs yesterday and he was building one and had me fondle it, now I want one. I have no idea where to start and there is so much info out there it's hard to wade through. Here's what I know I want. 16" flat top, not a picatinny rail but the other kind with the key holes? And a good trigger. Which direction should I look?

[Fl0und3rz]

This might be of interest.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,217071.0.html

[Biggerhammer]

Are you looking to assemble one or purchase a factory carbine?

[Bofire]

I kinda did the same thing a few years ago. what I learned so far. Be really careful with your scope/mount system, I had mine screwed up made it really hard to shoot. I bought a 16 inch decided it was too loud and bought an 18, if I buy another I think 18-22. My first one was a heavy barrel, bad balance, bad bad. There are lots of good after market triggers. get a free floated hand guard.
Good luck, they are accurate and fun
Carl

[cem3434]

If you're looking to build, here is a pretty affordable 16" MLOK kit to start with. You would just need a lower and you are up and running. https://www.ceratac.com/80-Kit-Carbine-Classic-Anodized-Builder-p/kit-556-c-ck-u-blk.htm

[lazydrifter]

This is a good kit too from PSA.  I've used a few of them and they are reliable.  Has everything but the lower receiver, magazine and rear sight.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-freedom-rifle-kit.html?trk_msg=684A4Q3JUFAKLFIV99FMHOAQJ0&trk_contact=BJT72L29KG4DRQQTJUIAF064CG&trk_sid=4OB9QONL1SFEFC6K93CJ9BENP8&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fpalmettostatearmory.com%2fpsa-16-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-freedom-rifle-kit.html&utm_campaign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=Saturday+12%2f2

[pianoman9701]

I kinda did the same thing a few years ago. what I learned so far. Be really careful with your scope/mount system, I had mine screwed up made it really hard to shoot. I bought a 16 inch decided it was too loud and bought an 18, if I buy another I think 18-22. My first one was a heavy barrel, bad balance, bad bad. There are lots of good after market triggers. get a free floated hand guard.
Good luck, they are accurate and fun
Carl

Make sure you get the right scope for what you want to do with it. I built a really nice long range gun and purchased a 2-10x Steiner scope for it. It's not enough scope for the gun. I also knew nothing about ARs when I started, except my M-16 experience in the military. Biggerhammer was very helpful during the build. I still don't know a lot about them, but at least now I know the difference between an AR15 and an AR10.  I do know how to shoot, however. 

[AWS]

I just don't get the love for these things.  I didn't care for it in the 60's when my life depended on it and still don't.  I won a very high end custom AR in 20 Practical in a shooting match, worked up a few loads for it and got it shooting under 1/2" off the bench, but find it awkward to shoot and carry.  I set it up with a 1.5-6x40mm scope for coyote hunting and a 6.5-20x40mm scope for GS, PD's and paper.  And now it sits in the safe gathering dust as there is always a better feeling rifle to take coyote hunting or varmint hunting.



A much better PD and paper gun in fact it won the AR.   Sav 10, 222 Rem, Boyd stock, SSS trigger, 6.5-20x40mm w/target dot



A better coyote rifle Win Model 70 222 Rem 1.5-6x40mm Burris SS



Both together cost less than the AR by a a lot.

[Buzz2401]

 
Their are lots of deals out there for production rifles that are selling for less then $600.  I'd find an inexpensive one to try out and see if ya like the platform.  Then you can upgrade from there.  I own several of them but really don't like shooting them.  I'd much rather shoot my bolt guns but that's just my preference.

[Biggerhammer]

Black Friday was the day for AR deals. I can't even count the e-mail's I got for complete AR carbines for under $400.00 let alone all the complete "Build kits".

[fishngamereaper]

Buy a Sig MCX....done.

Love mine.

[jdb]

I'm open to either building or buying. Whichever is cheaper with in reason. I also want no sights. I will be mounting a scope and see no reason for iron sights. Carps deal does look good but that barrel looks longer than 16"

[jdb]

So I guess I need an upper and a lower and an aftermarket trigger? What's a solid economical brand? Or is there a factory offering I should look at?

[dontgetcrabs]

Carp's ARs are 16" FYI.   

[jdb]

The stock in front of the action looks very short and I want the key hole things

[Biggerhammer]

The stock in front of the action looks very short and I want the key hole things

I also prefer Key-Mod with the Noveske Low profile Key-Mod panels or a carbon fiber free float.


.264 LBC (Key-Mod) I just mount a short Key-Mod rail section up front for a bipod. Quickly removable.



 6.5x6.8 SPC top, 6.8 SPC bottom (Key-Mod).





.243 LBC (Carbon fiber)

[cem3434]

The stock in front of the action looks very short and I want the key hole things

The link I provided above is the cheapest MLOK (key lock) 16" kit I have seen lately. It is a complete kit  less the lower receiver for $260. I don't think you will find anything cheaper with a MLOK rail. Btw, I have bought several of these kits myself from Ceratac and have no complaints.

[b23]

Biggerhammer, didn't you do a 22 Nosler AR not to long ago, how is that working out for you?  I'm kind of kicking around the idea of a 22 Nosler but still on the fence about it.

[Fl0und3rz]

The stock in front of the action looks very short and I want the key hole things

I also prefer Key-Mod with the Noveske Low profile Key-Mod panels or a carbon fiber free float.


.264 LBC (Key-Mod) I just mount a short Key-Mod rail section up front for a bipod. Quickly removable.



 6.5x6.8 SPC top, 6.8 SPC bottom (Key-Mod).





.243 LBC (Carbon fiber)

You always have the nice looking + hardware.

[hunter399]

First thing is do you want a range gun,or all out hunting caliber , or both,do you reload, lots of wildcat calibers coming out every year.Then do you wanna build yourself or buy out write ,building yourself is always cheaper,Don't be fooled by needing all these special tools,theres a lot of tricks  to get by without every tool on first build.Caliber being most important on cost factor.

[Biggerhammer]

Biggerhammer, didn't you do a 22 Nosler AR not to long ago, how is that working out for you?  I'm kind of kicking around the idea of a 22 Nosler but still on the fence about it.

Yep... It's alright but I prefer a chambering I can hunt big game with. Hands down the .243 LBC is the chambering for that. The Grendel/.264 LBC is great but I can launch a 95gr Berger Hunting VLD from a 22" .243 LBC at 3000 fps and do it with a solid 1/2-3/4 MOA. Wicked chambering at distance! The 6mmx6.8 SPC is a close second due to the length of the 6.8 SPC case, the shorter Grendel case/.243 LBC case is better suited for the longer high BC bullets. On the other hand a 6mm-6.8 SPC is very impressive on deer with the 90gr Accubond and the 95gr SST. Taken Mule deer with both combo's both BANG/FLOPS out to 287 yards both bullets exited the animal, complete pass through with serious trauma.



200 yards

[Alchase]

JDB, first determine what you want to use the rifle for.
A home defense, hunting, paper punching (extreme accuracy), I prefer to set mine up  by function.
Then caliber if other than .223/556.

I would love to build a lightweight 6.5, just because Inlike the 6.5, LOL

[SGTDuffman]

Figure out what you wanna do with it and it’ll help us point you in the right direction. As far as Keymod rails are concerned, I would avoid them. MLOK is a more robust non railed system, and was selected by the military over Keymod for that reason. There isn’t a whole lot of aluminum holding your accessories on w Keymod.

[hunter399]

Could help you look for cheap buys and sales,but without knowing what caliber is in interested can't help too much.

M-lok is also what's on my ar , you will find more compatible stuff with m-lok.

[Biggerhammer]

Seeing that most aren't jumping out of fixed wing aircraft in third world crap holes with their AR's. Key-Mod and M-Lok are both great and function just as well as each other in our world. It's  a persenal preferance. I like the wide verity of after market support for the Key-Mod system as compared to the proprietary system of MagPul/ M-Lok.

[hunter399]

Seeing that most aren't jumping out of fixed wing aircraft in third world crap holes with their AR's. Key-Mod and M-Lok are both great and function just as well as each other in our world. It's  a persenal preferance. I like the wide verity of after market support for the Key-Mod system as compared to the proprietary system of MagPul/ M-Lok.

I do agree Apple's and oranges both work very well.

[Biggerhammer]

There's still some smoking deals going for guys that want to assemble a AR. This is a link to a e-mail I got today.

Anderson makes quality stuff for the price. I would call it the top shelf of Mil-Spec standard stuff. A one stop shop place for the basic components. There's a world of after market stuff to frost the basics with.

http://www.primaryarms.com/anderson-manufacturing-ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-ar-15-a3?trk_msg=RHKGO8VJRGOKN9UCGGUAC9A0DG&trk_contact=RV7R0CP26HC6DMVAL9940H4DOG&trk_sid=U6FD9SFED1A5PD1FN8EO4SG45C&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=BANNER_1&utm_campaign=17_12_Ad_02_24_HR_Sale

[SGTDuffman]

Seeing that most aren't jumping out of fixed wing aircraft in third world crap holes with their AR's. Key-Mod and M-Lok are both great and function just as well as each other in our world. It's  a persenal preferance. I like the wide verity of after market support for the Key-Mod system as compared to the proprietary system of MagPul/ M-Lok.

Both are open source designs. MLok outsells Keymod by about 3:1. It’s also about 3-4x more repeatable if accessories are removed.

[Biggerhammer]

Seeing that most aren't jumping out of fixed wing aircraft in third world crap holes with their AR's. Key-Mod and M-Lok are both great and function just as well as each other in our world. It's  a persenal preferance. I like the wide verity of after market support for the Key-Mod system as compared to the proprietary system of MagPul/ M-Lok.

Both are open source designs. MLok outsells Keymod by about 3:1. It’s also about 3-4x more repeatable if accessories are removed.

I guess I know a little about AR's,  never had a issue with "Repeatable" on a handguard? Not much into marketing, more into functional. I don't need to read about stuff, I purchase it, use the hell out of it and make my decision from real world trigger time. To each their own.

[SGTDuffman]

Seeing that most aren't jumping out of fixed wing aircraft in third world crap holes with their AR's. Key-Mod and M-Lok are both great and function just as well as each other in our world. It's  a persenal preferance. I like the wide verity of after market support for the Key-Mod system as compared to the proprietary system of MagPul/ M-Lok.

Both are open source designs. MLok outsells Keymod by about 3:1. It’s also about 3-4x more repeatable if accessories are removed.

I guess I know a little about AR's,  never had a issue with "Repeatable" on a handguard? Not much into marketing, more into functional. I don't need to read about stuff, I purchase it, use the hell out of it and make my decision from real world trigger time. To each their own.

Guess you never used a PEQ-2. Or any other laser on a hand guard. At least not anywhere but on the top. And I rather enjoyed jumping out of planes, easiest $150/mo I ever made. The point is, knowing what the planned use is can help us help. If it’s gonna live its life punching paper or popping coyotes, that’s completely different than self defense, in every aspect. If I was betting my life on it, I could count the brands I’d recommend on 1 hand.

[Biggerhammer]

There you go. How many guys are mounting a PEQ-2 on their AR's on this web site?

I don't feel that a Key-Mod or a M-Lok handguard is going to make a difference in groups size when it comes to "Punching paper" and a Coyote sure isn't going to know the difference between the two when he gets his junk smoked!👍


But I will bet my life on the junk I assemble, that's a fact. ☠️

[lamrith]

Biggerhammer, didn't you do a 22 Nosler AR not to long ago, how is that working out for you?  I'm kind of kicking around the idea of a 22 Nosler but still on the fence about it.

Yep... It's alright but I prefer a chambering I can hunt big game with. Hands down the .243 LBC is the chambering for that. The Grendel/.264 LBC is great but I can launch a 95gr Berger Hunting VLD from a 22" .243 LBC at 3000 fps and do it with a solid 1/2-3/4 MOA. Wicked chambering at distance! The 6mmx6.8 SPC is a close second due to the length of the 6.8 SPC case, the shorter Grendel case/.243 LBC case is better suited for the longer high BC bullets. On the other hand a 6mm-6.8 SPC is very impressive on deer with the 90gr Accubond and the 95gr SST. Taken Mule deer with both combo's both BANG/FLOPS out to 287 yards both bullets exited the animal, complete pass through with serious trauma.



200 yards

BiggerHammer How is the recoil on the .243 vs 308 since it requires the larger AR frame?

[Biggerhammer]

Biggerhammer, didn't you do a 22 Nosler AR not to long ago, how is that working out for you?  I'm kind of kicking around the idea of a 22 Nosler but still on the fence about it.

Yep... It's alright but I prefer a chambering I can hunt big game with. Hands down the .243 LBC is the chambering for that. The Grendel/.264 LBC is great but I can launch a 95gr Berger Hunting VLD from a 22" .243 LBC at 3000 fps and do it with a solid 1/2-3/4 MOA. Wicked chambering at distance! The 6mmx6.8 SPC is a close second due to the length of the 6.8 SPC case, the shorter Grendel case/.243 LBC case is better suited for the longer high BC bullets. On the other hand a 6mm-6.8 SPC is very impressive on deer with the 90gr Accubond and the 95gr SST. Taken Mule deer with both combo's both BANG/FLOPS out to 287 yards both bullets exited the animal, complete pass through with serious trauma.



200 yards

BiggerHammer How is the recoil on the .243 vs 308 since it requires the larger AR frame?

I run a adjustable gas block on most. It's easy to tune them to shoot smooth along with a quality comp/brake. Most of the recoil from a AR/AR10 is from bolt thrust. Running the gas system with a adjustable gas block is less complicated and smoother than playing the buffer spring / buffer game.

The .243 LBC is based on a AR-15 platform? I wouldn't waste my time assembling a .308 AR. The 6.5Creedmoor walks all over it.

[SGTDuffman]

There you go. How many guys are mounting a PEQ-2 on their AR's on this web site?

I don’t know. That’s why I asked what it’s being used for. There are lots of LEOs on the site, and dog hunters will drop serious coin on NV equipment, so it’s not horribly far fetched to think it may be a consideration. I pointed out some advantages to why I’d consider mlok over keymod. For whatever reason you seem dead set against mlok. That’s fine. The OP asked for opinions so I threw one out there. If you don’t like it, then disregard it. Unless you think I’ve given some sort of false or erroneous information, then correct me if I’m wrong. I just said it was stronger. And corrected you when you said mlok was proprietary.

[Biggerhammer]

Great on your correction, guess I'm not up to speed on M-Lok. I don't use it but I'm not against it. I just prefer other systems along with carbon fiber. Let me know how many law enforcement dept get tossed PEQ-2's in WA State. It's not something that's stashed in the average patrol vehicle trunk. You know as well as I do in the civilian/ state side world their use is limited to special tactics and it is a small fraction of the whole, if  at all.

[jdb]

what I have in mind for the rifle is a lightweight compact .223 mostly to carry while shed hunting and checking trail cameras. I shoot most factory ammo

[Alchase]

what I have in mind for the rifle is a lightweight compact .223 mostly to carry while shed hunting and checking trail cameras. I shoot most factory ammo

There are many factory rifles that would fill this need for less then $600 out the door.
If you want to build your own, there are a few people here who will point you to what you need.

[SGTDuffman]

what I have in mind for the rifle is a lightweight compact .223 mostly to carry while shed hunting and checking trail cameras. I shoot most factory ammo

There are tons of local companies that manufacture AR uppers, lowers, and fore ends, or complete rifles, if buying local matters to you. We're sort of lucky around here, in that a lot of the machine shops who did contract work for Boeing have put their manufacturing capabilities (AERO Precision, Mega Machine, Fortis, etc.)  to work manufacturing AR parts. Depending on how lightweight you're looking to go, building it yourself is probably your best bet. For an AR15, there really isn't much to worry about as far as the fit of the parts. Any decent quality parts should fit and function just fine for your intended use. It would be fairly hard to find something comparable to one you purpose build in terms of weight. If the prospect of building your own makes you uneasy, I'm sure there are plenty of guys who could put one together for you. Or you could spec out an upper and just build the lower yourself. It really isn't that hard to do though, and only requires a couple of special tools, and they aren't terribly expensive. Depending where you're at I could let you borrow them.

Or you could just buy a complete rifle. That's part of the appeal of AR's. You aren't locked in to whatever you get. If you decide there is something you don't like about the one you got, you can swap that part out. Probably best to stick to solid colors that are readily available in that case. If you end up wanting to shave some weight, or increase the barrel length you could do it yourself later on.

This won't really apply to you because you stated you'd like a .223, but for anyone else following along, .308 AR's are a different story. There is no standard specification for them. You have to get specific uppers and lowers and pair them accordingly, make sure you're using the correct kind of bolt carrier group, correct magazines for the bolt and lower, etc. Because the 5.56mm/.223 became the military standard, it's specifications are set. The only real difference there are the trigger pins (large or small [thanks Colt], 98% of what you see will be small) and commercial or mil spec buttstocks. .308 AR's came down to the commercial producers, and they're all over the place. DPMS, SR-25, AR10, etc. had different standards. I believe they've more recently began solidifying some of the specifications and more or less falling into just 2 groups anymore, but it's something to be aware of. .308 AR's won't just go together like AR15s will.

[Antlershed]

What would you guys recommend for a more affordable trigger for a Coyote hunting rifle, built with an 18-20” barrel? Would love to drop the coin on a Giessele, but trying to build this one a little more budget friendly.

[Biggerhammer]

What would you guys recommend for a more affordable trigger for a Coyote hunting rifle, built with an 18-20” barrel? Would love to drop the coin on a Giessele, but trying to build this one a little more budget friendly.

Rock River Two stage. Great trigger with gloves on. Smoked a bunch of coyotes with them over the years. Great trigger for dawgs on the run. Used to get them for $75.00 bucks on E-Bay Shipped. Once I tried the CMC 2/2 flat trigger Drop in, I never went back. I really like flat triggers!

[hunter399]

What would you guys recommend for a more affordable trigger for a Coyote hunting rifle, built with an 18-20” barrel? Would love to drop the coin on a Giessele, but trying to build this one a little more budget friendly.

These give ya 4lb trigger ,not a drop in , not a 2 stage,but a lot better than stock trigger ,alot cheaper than you will find anywhere.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/436860/jp-enterprises-fire-control-system-trigger-spring-kit-ar-15-4-1-2-lb

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/407819/ar-stoner-enhanced-trigger-group-ar-15-lr-308-small-pin-154-single-stage

I buy both and install both.

[Antlershed]

Thanks guys, I’ll check them out.

[lamrith]

What would you guys recommend for a more affordable trigger for a Coyote hunting rifle, built with an 18-20” barrel? Would love to drop the coin on a Giessele, but trying to build this one a little more budget friendly.

Rock River Two stage. Great trigger with gloves on. Smoked a bunch of coyotes with them over the years. Great trigger for dawgs on the run. Used to get them for $75.00 bucks on E-Bay Shipped. Once I tried the CMC 2/2 flat trigger Drop in, I never went back. I really like flat triggers!

Can get them brand new from this site for $80.  They have both the 3.5# and 4.5# versions.  I have one of each.  really really nice trigger (Not a Giessle, Timney etc, but nice) specially for the price.  I used to spend $60ish on the ALG Combat trigger(Another decent "milspec" trigger), as they were so much better than parts kits triggers, but with this price the RR has become my Std trigger for new builds.
https://www.righttobear.com/searchresults.asp?Search=rock+river&Submit=

[skeeter 20i]

A lot of good info here guys thanks for sharing 

[SGTDuffman]

What would you guys recommend for a more affordable trigger for a Coyote hunting rifle, built with an 18-20” barrel? Would love to drop the coin on a Giessele, but trying to build this one a little more budget friendly.

I like LaRue MBT's, but only when they're on sale (3-4 times a year). They're usually $99 w free shipping. LaRue will typically send you a little "free" swag too whenever you buy something. A hat or Armadillo "beverage entry tool" or whatever. Got a Geiselle in one, a milspec in another, and the LaRue. Really like the distinct stages in the LaRue, though the blade of the trigger is a bit wider. Not an issue, just something to be aware of. It feels a bit different than most other triggers that are the standard milspec width side to side. They ship with a 4.5# spring "installed" and have the 6# spring in the tin if you wan't something a bit "safer".

[Special T]

https://gun.deals/product/certac-carbine-classic-kit-80-anodized-30999?mobile=true
Cheap kit minus lower $289

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Calvin Rayborn]

Youtube - Larry Potterfield - Midway USA AR series build videos. Guy's an animal, he's like the Martha Stewart of all things firearm  "Oh, no big deal...we can just machine this part from scratch...and THAT'S the WAY IT IS!"