collapse
Advertise on Hunting-Washington Bearpaw Outfitters, Quality Hunts for over 30 Years

Author Topic: Disappointing conversation  (Read 890 times)

Offline Camo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 183
  • Location: Snohomish Co.
Disappointing conversation
« on: December 28, 2017, 03:37:02 PM »
Doing some research for next year’s hunt, I had a typically pleasant conversation with a representative from IDFG. Towards the end of the conversation I was asked where I was calling from, which is not too uncommon in my experience. The next question was, “am I an ethical hunter”. I was a little shocked at the question, to which I hesitantly replied, yes, very much so. 

Before I go any further and get crucified here. I understand that every year, there are “impressions” and verbalized contempt regarding out of state hunters in most western states. Most of which, I want to believe, (though unacceptable) are isolated incidents, that end up labeling an entire community. I also believe, from a PR standpoint, that most F&G representatives from any state, are going to be overly cognizant of this before they start making generalizations.

The previous sentence is the reason I am posting this. Based off our “very general” conversation, my “impression” is that there were enough incidents that took place during this past season that not only made Washington hunters stand out above all others, but more specifically hunters from the west side of the state, which would include me. Therefore, I am taking this personally and felt that it was my responsibility to pass this observation on to others. I greatly appreciate the experience and opportunity that Idaho and all other states afford me, which is why I spend the time and money to go there. I assume, like everyone else that does the same? Therefore, I will respect the laws, the landscape, and ethical responsibilities that come with it. Not only leaving it a better place for me to return to next year, but actually welcoming me back.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 05:50:54 PM by Camo »
Albacore, the better white meat.

Offline Magnum_Willys

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 03:45:02 PM »
Idaho is eager to learn who is buying their tags and what they can do to keep them buying them.  IMO I wouldn't read much more into it than that  :dunno:

Online Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 16766
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 03:49:43 PM »
The only conclusion I can reach from that is that they have a poorly trained agent who asked an inappropriate question.

Nothing more.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline lord grizzly

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 424
  • Location: idaho
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 04:00:51 PM »
Personally I'd love to see a wall go up on our border to the people's republic of Washington/Oregon/California. But that probably wouldn't be the best thing for revenue. I'm sure he asked you for good reason...

Offline ghosthunter

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 4800
  • Location: Mount Vernon WA
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 04:05:32 PM »
I have heard that before. A Montana game agent told a guy I know that they wrote more tickets to Washington out of state hunters than any other state.

A Washington game agent in eastern Washington told me that they had more trouble with hunters from Sedro Woolley than any other area.

We have a long ways to go on ethics. :twocents:
GHOST CAMP "We Came To Hunt"
Proud Parent of A United States Marine

We are all traveling from Birth to the Packing House. ( Broken Trail)

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4702
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 04:06:07 PM »
As a guy who used to field those calls (WA and WY, not ID), I find the "ethical hunter" question pointless.  Mainly because the answer will always be yes - the ethical are truthful and the unethical are liars, so I don't see the point in asking.  I generally assume the guys calling in winter for next year's hunt are ethical and trying to make good, informed decisions - though I have formed my own opinions otherwise during certain conversations, I kept my opinions to myself regarding the caller's character. 

As for generalizing about hunters' character based on where they live, that's a BS game.  No better than racism or other bias really.  I bet Washington hunters are the #1 or #2 nonresident hunter constituency in Idaho, and since most Washingtonians live in the greater Pugetropolis area, it stands to reason a fair number of their violators will be from there.  It would be pretty ignorant to extrapolate from those demographics that western Washington hunters tend to be less ethical than others. 
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline Camo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 183
  • Location: Snohomish Co.
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 04:22:29 PM »
Idaho is eager to learn who is buying their tags and what they can do to keep them buying them.  IMO I wouldn't read much more into it than that  :dunno:
There was additional "generic" conversation following that question that leads me to believe there was "some" substance behind the question.
The only conclusion I can reach from that is that they have a poorly trained agent who asked an inappropriate question.

Nothing more.
In this PC era that I live in, I personally appreciate a constructive "inappropriate" question. I would rather know what is going on as opposed to some new law or rule restricting me from something I didn't know was a problem. Maybe I can't innfluence it, but it won't be a surprise.
Albacore, the better white meat.

Offline Torrent50

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 177
  • Location: Olympia
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 06:47:46 PM »
Rather than speculating, have you considered calling back and asking them what the reasons for those questions were? 
"when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."  Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 35958
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 07:08:44 PM »
Weird. I don’t get the speculation either.  Sounds like a dumb question that was asked by the IDFG guy but I don’t understand the speculation either.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Duckslayer89

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 2706
  • Location: Orting
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 07:30:56 PM »
I was hunting a BMA ranch this year and the owner told me he's dropping out of the program. He said I was the first one to come introduce myself all year long and that the out of staters were actually the most respectful. It was the local Montana residents who showed up acting like they owned the place he said.

Offline sumpnz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: Skagit
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 07:37:28 PM »
When I took my oldest to hunter safety class a few years ago the instructors said that WA residents have the reputation for being the worst for trespassing.  Both within WA, and as out of state hunters.

Offline CAMPMEAT

  • CAMPMEAT
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 12404
  • Location: ARIZONA, A PLACE WHERE I DON'T WANT YOU LIVING !!
  • Nice...............
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 08:05:37 PM »
Shudda asked that person if they litter when they drive through Washington ?
I could care less about what anybody says..............

Offline Duckslayer89

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 2706
  • Location: Orting
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 08:14:53 PM »
Shudda asked that person if they litter when they drive through Washington ?

Lmao

Offline Naches Sportsman

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1617
  • Location: Moscow, Idaho; Formerly Naches, Wa
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 08:22:00 PM »
Some of the conversations I've had about Washington hunters over a drink with born and raised Idahoans cannot be discussed here as it is not suited for the general audience.
Leave No Trace!

Offline Calvin Rayborn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 356
  • Location: Columbia Basin
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 08:24:52 PM »
Guarantee ya it's some sort of stupid quota/survey thing thought up by some idiot bean counter that knows nothing about hunting. It's becoming the norm throughout all government agencies; the QI boys and girls have to throw out something new every so often to continue to act like they're being productive. I wouldn't take it personally.

Online Alan K

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 2447
  • Location: Lewis County, WA
  • University of Idaho Alumni
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 08:25:52 PM »
Some of the conversations I've had about Washington hunters over a drink with born and raised Idahoans cannot be discussed here as it is not suited for the general audience.

 :yeah:  :chuckle:

Offline idahohuntr

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2349
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 08:32:13 PM »
Some of the conversations I've had about Washington hunters over a drink with born and raised Idahoans cannot be discussed here as it is not suited for the general audience.
:chuckle:
Once I get to idaho my Wa plated truck stays parked...dads old wood truck does just fine!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline hughjorgan

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 1229
Re: Disappointing conversation today
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 08:41:22 PM »
Personally I'd love to see a wall go up on our border to the people's republic of Washington/Oregon/California. But that probably wouldn't be the best thing for revenue. I'm sure he asked you for good reason...

Good news for you more Californians are moving to your state every year, so pretty soon you to will get to be part of the peoples republic of California.  :bash:

Offline Camo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 183
  • Location: Snohomish Co.
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 09:12:53 PM »
It is evident that I handled this incorrectly. I was simply trying to create some awareness while maintaining as much anonymity as possible for the individual I spoke with. This in no way was meant to call into question IDFG, much to the contrary. There is no speculation on my part that “unethically viewed” incidents occurred this past season involving hunters originating from Western Washington as it pertains to this conversation. I could be accused of speculation in my original comment that “Western Washington hunters stood out above others”. That is where the conversation went, and I “presume” that to single out a specific demographic, under these circumstances, implies significance. I do not claim to, nor do I know, what happened, when it happened, how often or who was involved as I did not pursue it and honestly would not expect them to divulge that information for fear of unnecessary repercussion or scrutiny. (Mostly because someone like myself will go and post it on a forum.)

I appreciate having any F&G department as a resource tool and do not wish to be categorized as unethical to start off that conversation due to actions of others. I do not have a problem with asking a potential hunting partner if they are ethical hunters. Therefore, I don’t have a problem being asked, regardless if it is a state run agency. I don’t pay taxes there, I go there as a visitor, by my choice, but I will continue to self-police anywhere I visit as if it were my home.  If this conversation results in one individual making more ethical decisions in the field going forward, then it worked.
Albacore, the better white meat.

Offline Odell

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 605
  • Location: Bonney Lake
  • the deuce is loose
Re: Disappointing conversation
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 09:26:23 PM »
Some of the most unethical hunters I have ever hunted with are from and live in Idaho. Should I assume that's the norm for the state?
what in the wild wild world of sports???