More blood and guts

[bobcat]

I don't believe they're saying there's too many elk. Antlerless permits were drastically cut last year, and this year the proposal shows no antlerless early archery season in any of the 300 units except 334 and 335. That's a pretty major change to a season that people have become accustomed to hunting over many years.

Those changes were because of "winter kill" aka lead poisoning by kill permits.

Well whatever the reason, there's obviously no longer too many elk, or antlerless hunts wouldn't be cut down to almost nothing.

[PlateauNDN]

I read it here all the time. These herds those herds this herd has numbers to support a season and tags. Hell, so who's right? The lawmakers of HW or wdfw? I hear it all the time on here, "just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there" or "they're pressured, go deep & steep". Well, if they're not historically there then where'd they go?

If numbers are down, why did wdfw open up a late season in the wenas?

Let's say goats? The blazed ridge herd has way more goats to support hunts, but no hunts. The alpine wilderness can support hunts but no hunts.

We see the numbers cuz we're there, but how do we change the opinion of wdfw?

[PlateauNDN]

Wdfw changes seasons as they see fit, is that nothing new? How me a report that doesn't say the yakima herd is in dire straights?

[baker5150]

Plat,

I think we can all agree, that any report, regardless of who drafted it, will not be, and never will be accurate unless WDFW and the Tribes REQUIRE ALL hunters to report their harvest. 

It's simple, no license without first reporting.  Lets get some real numbers.

[PlateauNDN]

Is anybody going to connect the dots on what I'm saying?  Science by wdfw says there's plenty of game. But people here say there is not, so who's right?

People say the abuse and illegal activity by members of my tribe are having an adverse affect but can anyone prove it?

You want change, you want things to get dealt with then prove thru science that the pact by so few is having a detrimental impact.

Because right now science says it's not and the herds are thriving.

[farmin4u_98948]

Atta Boy to you Plat NDN. It’s emotion not science. Even if there is “ Scientific evidence “. If your mind is already  made up, a person will say the evidence is biased because it doesn’t line up with their beliefs. aka. Don’t bother me with the facts. My minds already made up. 

[bobcat]

It's not all about science. In fact the majority of wildlife management is not and never will be based on science. It's based on basically what people want. And we, as hunters, want elk to be plentiful so we can hunt them, and eat them. Now farmers on the other hand, in general, want less elk, as elk can cost them money.

Anyway, it's more about right and wrong. Is it right for one person to kill, let's just say, 30 trophy bull elk, in one year, for the purpose of selling the heads/antlers? Perhaps not even taking the meat, or if he does take the meat, he sells it too.

So this is the kind of thing that happens, and it's legal, at least according to the Washington state law. So is this right, even if it can't be scientifically proven to be detrimental to the state's elk populations?

[JimmyHoffa]

Really?  WDFW likes science?  Look at the cougar seasons and quotas or no OTC spring bear hunt.

[PlateauNDN]

So scientific methods used to set seasons or policy for that matter isn't what wdfw uses? Hmmmm.......ok, my mistake

[PlateauNDN]

Right, wrong, yes or no? Since when did emotion become apart of how regulations are set? Sure we know greed, liberal agenda and other activist type groups have an impact and voice on how things are set but can you prove they are?

Can you prove ranchers/farmers are funneling funds to get what they want from policy makers? You know it's happening but can it be proven?

Knowing and proving are two different things.

I know what happens as far as abuse and illegal activity but can I prove it? Sure, with enough time, money and resources I could but do I have enough time to do so? No, I dont.

[trophyhunt]

It's not all about science. In fact the majority of wildlife management is not and never will be based on science. It's based on basically what people want. And we, as hunters, want elk to be plentiful so we can hunt them, and eat them. Now farmers on the other hand, in general, want less elk, as elk can cost them money.

Anyway, it's more about right and wrong. Is it right for one person to kill, let's just say, 30 trophy bull elk, in one year, for the purpose of selling the heads/antlers? Perhaps not even taking the meat, or if he does take the meat, he sells it too.

So this is the kind of thing that happens, and it's legal, at least according to the Washington state law. So is this right, even if it can't be scientifically proven to be detrimental to the state's elk populations?

agree, that is the point.

[trophyhunt]

I wish Plat could be chief!!!   

[Gringo31]

You want change, you want things to get dealt with then prove thru science that the pact by so few is having a detrimental impact.

I appreciate you gentlemen having an honest discussion with only limited amounts of knuckle dragging going on.  I will say with the quote above that to prove through science, you need data.  It's hard to guess with data when there are poor records of actual harvest.  There is a separate but equal attitude (and that might be a stretch) but it's not unless both sides share actual numbers that someone could make sound decisions.   

[PlateauNDN]

You prove it by showing the, you know what...forget it. If some can't look and comprehend what I'm saying then why keep trying...

[Gringo31]

Plat,
I appreciate your view AND voice.  My hope would be to work together on this.  I think the forum may be one of the very few opportunities to even communicate the issue.  I do understand that having to hear all the native bashing year after year gets old, but I think progress has been made in educating many to the rights, treaties etc. 

My greatest pet peeve is making someone upset accidentally.  I'm ok if I do it on purpose, but hate accidental