Western Wyoming Mule Deer in Crisis

[CaNINE]

I know there are many members here who hunt Wyoming and may be willing to support the cause to protect Wyoming's mule deer herd.

The winter of 2016 had a significant impact on herd mortality.  Immediate changes are needed to how Wyoming Fish & Game manages hunting in Western Wyoming, particularly Region G & H.  I believe it is our duty as hunters to take action and be willing to sacrifice in order to preserve the herd and help it rebuild.

My friend, Robb Wiley who owns Non-Typical Outfitters in Alpine, Wyoming, is helping lead a charge to petition the Wyoming Fish & Game Commission to make interim changes to the number of resident and non-resident tags in these units.

I encourage you to read Robb's position and strategy then take action to write letters to the commissioners showing your support toward making changes to Wyoming's deer herd management strategy.

https://nontypicaloutfitters.com/mule-deer-crisis/

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/About-Us/Game-and-Fish-Commission/Meet-the-Commissioners

Thank you

[jjhunter]

I’m not a fan of Robb....undeniably hypocritical.  Obviously, doesn’t like competition.

That being said, resident pressure should be curtailed.  Not sure how many more tags that non residents should give up?

I think that other measures could be taken to maintain opportunity and save a few deer.

[meatwhack]

Sorry to say but Robb is only looking out for himself and future profits in what he’s pushing for. People are more willing to pay top dollar for high end bucks. He’s pushing to eliminate some of his competition on these upper end bucks.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I would think our mule deer populations are way worse than theirs. 

[link]

I read through that a while ago. I'm also curious as to what it is that he is willing to sacrifice?  I'm confused as to what he is going to do to help out the herd. He says he wants to be part of the solution. Even if non resident tags get cut drastically, and resident tags get limited ( do not think that's  going to happen ) he is still going to be booked up with as many hunters as he has now.  He's booked up now for a couple years, and built up a reputation for killing big bucks, which he definitely does. Go look at his website. Anyone with a coveted tag who is going to hire an outfitter should have him at or near the top of their list. like said before, it seems like he is trying to use this crisis to his benefit. Carpetbagger!

[Limhangerslayer]

I’m not a fan of Robb....undeniably hypocritical.  Obviously, doesn’t like competition.
   Jj nailed it.  Sure cut resident and outfitter tags.  Non residents have already been cut.   Hell give us the wilderness back and we'll talk! 
That being said, resident pressure should be curtailed.  Not sure how many more tags that non residents should give up?

I think that other measures could be taken to maintain opportunity and save a few deer.

[actionshooter]

I don't think Robb is using this for a financial gain, he truly cares about the herd and the area. I agree that on the surface limiting tags probably wouldn't affect the number of people that Non-Typical COULD take out, but it also wouldn't surprise me at all if Robb limited himself.
 One thing to consider, NTO is all about bringing in the big bucks and if the population isn't there and they continue to take out the same amount of hunters the success percentages go down. That's not a winning situation.

[Skyvalhunter]

CANine is it possible you could lead the charge here in Wa state to do the same?

[Branden]

It would only help NTO if they cut tags. Plus when you have a post hunt buck/doe ratio of over 30/100 why do you need to cut more buck tags. That is plenty of bucks to breed the does. He should be pushing to increase the doe numbers.

Try getting Robb to push for a 1 week season and see what happens. It’s tough for the deer to make it through a 3 week season unseen. Also how can he say long range shooting is a problem when he has a long range shooting class himself? Hypocrite much? How about scouting by airplane? How about the scouting packages? A huge detriment to the herd? Brian said 2 of his clients have killed bucks compared how many of NTO’s clients? Straight up this is about reducing compition. It is in his self interest hands down to limit hunters.

Regards, Branden

[jjhunter]

His true colors were shown went he went after scouting packages...egos can be hard to tame I guess?

[2MANY]

Too few acres and too many people.
One of the 2 has to change.

I have an opinion on people that make a living off our public resources but it wouldn't be popular with the ones who feel entitled to continue doing so.

[DOUBLELUNG]

Unlimited nonresident tags?  Selfish interests?  Please.  Same old outfitter song that resident hunter opportunities (and/or non-outfitted nonresident hunters) have to be curtailed so poor old outfitters can make more money.  Too bad there aren't wilderness areas in the Wyoming Range, as the outfitters already hosed the nonresident big game hunter in most other Wyoming mountain ranges with the absurd wilderness guide requirement.

A few comments on his appeal: "This is why I have decided to ring the bell and shout from the mountain top, “This herd My profit marginneeds our help!”  "Yet I am ready to give it all up, if necessary, to save this magical herd." Really?  Put up or shut up.  I can't see a single mention of any proposal to limit NTO in any way.  "The WGF is trying to do the impossible job of keeping everyone happy.  It’s time to stop and revert to the original task of managing for the wildlife first. "  BS They manage for the wildlife first and the license buyer second.  Third is probably private landowners.  Sorry to say, public land outfitters are not high on the priority.  "Right now, the only management tools they have is shortening the season and cutting non-resident tag numbers. Both of those tools have already been maximized."  Both of these tools have been maximized to the point public land outfitters' future profiteering may be jeopardized would be an much more accurate statement.  I could go on, but it is all the same deceptive and/or self-serving drivel.

I could go for reducing hunting pressure 50% as he claims to want: cut season length in half Oh wait, that's been "maximized", he'd have to hire twice as many guides.  Legal shooting hours 9am-3pm.  No hunting same year as aerial scouting.  No use of game cameras.  Preposterous?  Yes, anything that limits a public land outfitter is preposterous, only reasonable ideas please - those that limit my competition for the public resource on public land.  "It’s very clear that if we are going to save this herd it will be by reducing overall harvest, by reducing the number of resident hunters in the area." Want to control who harvests what?  Lease a f'in ranch.

  I would say the #1 reason for the decline in quality is technology: aerial scouting, trail cameras, 1000 yard shooting systems, BDC laser rangefinders, etc.  #2, the guys busting butt to find the biggest and best all summer, in order to sell as many as possible for the highest dollar possible.  #3, the ever-growing prioritization of inches of bone rendered to possession as the primary objective in hunting.  I dislike all three, but it's not my place to dictate what 21st century hunting is.  I don't think anyone begrudges public land outfitters the opportunity to try and make a living - but the inevitable squalling for measures to tip the scales their way sure gets tiresome.

[Hot Lunch]

The lack of big bucks issue goes a lot further than Wyoming. Hunters now are armed with deadly accurate rifles that can accurately shoot well over a mile. Wearing lightweight high tech performance clothing and footwear. These guys are scouting with google earth,social media, air planes while hunting the entire season. Hunter efficiency has never been higher and this is an issue that is not going away and is not isolated to one area.

Getting on a horse and going back a few miles is a failing tactic to get into big deer. Outfitters like the one listed above are no doubt panicking about the quality of deer and blaming it on overall deer numbers which is not the case. I can understand they would like less hunters in their area but is not a viable solution to manage units because of competition from non-outfitted hunters.

[CaNINE]

Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions on this topic.  I was expecting more discussion on the topic of conservation rather than a backlash at the outfitting industry.  I appreciate the perspectives though. 

My take is that the actions that are good for rebuilding and sustaining the deer herd are good for all of us, hunters and outfitters alike.  I for one, hope to continue hunting and having an opportunity at mature age class animals in Region G & H.  And I would like those opportunities for future generations.  However, with a 90%+ fawn mortality in 2017, the problem is beyond just managing for trophy class deer.

I will say this, I think the strategy should go further to include a 1 - 3-year moratorium for residents and non-residents alike in certain regions.  Even this extreme step is no guarantee at rebooting the herd and certainly wouldn't be popular with most user groups. 

Again, thanks for the discussion.

Skyvalhunter - you asked if I'm willing to lead the charge here in Washington.  I'm certainly willing to be part of the conversation.  If you're serious, send me a PM and we can have a meeting.  Laying out a meaningful strategy over an internet forum will be difficult to administrate.  Perhaps we can organize some HuntWa member focus groups in different geographical regions of the State to meet face-to-face, develop some problem statements and lay out recommendations on behalf of the hunting community.  We can merge those ideas then take them forward to WDFW.  Just a thought.

[2MANY]

CaNINE has demonstrated that he is worthy of any involvement he chooses.
I'm very impressed.
I've only hunted Region G and H five times over the course of the past 15 years or so.
What I have seen could be fixed by limiting the amount of hunters.
As it gained popularity it spiraled downward.
Obviously winter's are another subject.
The last time I was there I was shocked at the amount of human sign from earlier in the season. There also was broken snow mobile parts on the tops of the highest peaks.
Just plain gross to the point I didn't go back.
Even all the magazine cover bucks I've seen in there in the past and a cache of points won't get me there.
More efficient hunters?
Yup and simply too many of them too.
All the more reason to limit the amount of users.
Period.
I wish you the best of luck CaNINE and hope you make a difference.