Expandable Broadheads

[Buckrub]

Sent a letter to the wildlife commission the other day questioning why Washington doesn't allow expandable broadheads....no reply as yet. I have a 13 yo just starting to bowhunt and they seem much safer.

Anything I am missing? anyone know why they are not allowed?

What are your thoughts...for or against

[bow-n-head]

They are legal here in Montana. I hear alot more bad about them than good. I hear angled shots sometimes deflect the broadhead bad depending on how they open. The only one I hear anything good about is RAGE, I have personally never tried an expandable. To afraid of loosing an elk.

[MIKEXRAY]

This was asked by another & posted before. The answer was the broadhead can't be barbed or expandable for the reason that they want the arrow to pull out in case of bad shot or some answer like that. Before I read it I was for expandables , having only seen them on TV but once I read the reason the state does not allow them it kind of made sense. The way it was worded made you think it might be a problem, the answer was the same for expandables and any barb on the broadhead. I'll look through the old threads and find it. Last year was the first year I really worked on my broadhead flight & dialed it all in, I really don't see a need for them. I shot my mule deer with a 3 blade 100 gr thurderhead ( 1 1/8 th in ) & the entrance & exit wounds were huge. Can't imagine needing more.  Mike

[Snapshot]

Safer for the kids? This is the first time I've heard that. How about teaching the kids the importance of being careful around sharp objects? Kids are fast learners; I know because I personally only have one broadhead inflicted scar on my face.

Mechanical devices can fail on impact for various reasons. And until one can be made that never fails I don't think a responsible WDFW will allow them. They are completely unnecessary except to the manufacturers; manufacturers who happen to care less for game animals than they do their bottom lines.

Do the kids a real favor and teach them how to sharpen a well made fixed blade broadhead. Self reliance can't be store bought and will stay with them for a lifetime.

DS

[Buckrub]

I only have one self inflicted broadhead scar myself...on my thumb.

My kids are taught safety from a very young age with any weapon.
I don't want any young person to learn the "hard way".

Not having any experience with expandables I was looking for input for myself more than anything else. They do appear to be a safer broadhead?? But from some input they are not failsafe..yet.

Thanks

[BULLBLASTER]

broadhead cuts will heal with time. every year starting in august i always seem to learn that... besides who needs a stinkin broadhead wrench. no real reason you would want to use expandables, especially with a young child shooting low poundage and kinetic energy, the expandable will only rob precious penetration ability. they should be using a good cut on contact head, like a stinger or muzzy phantom or like that.

[lokidog]

If you're worried about planing, try a fall away rest.  My thunderheads used to plane about 10 inches high and right at 20 but it was substantially reduced with the new rest.  The following year I changed to Wasp SST and now have identical impact point with target tips.

[Buckrub]

broadhead cuts will heal with time. every year starting in august i always seem to learn that... besides who needs a stinkin broadhead wrench. no real reason you would want to use expandables, especially with a young child shooting low poundage and kinetic energy, the expandable will only rob precious penetration ability. they should be using a good cut on contact head, like a stinger or muzzy phantom or like that.

Actually his bow shoots faster and harder than my Guardian...he is shooting a Martin @270 fps.
G5 Montecs make tuning easy but cut thumbs very easy...

[RUTNBULL1]

Was at the local Archery pro shop the other day and was presented with a new broadhead idea from NAP, they say they have the go head approval from the ODFW and the WDFW on this new expandable broadhead, it is supposed to retract back to its original state when trying to extract it from any animal that has been shot without a complete pass thru. This broadhead was at the ATA show in Las Vegas last month. 

[Snapshot]

"they say they have the go head approval from ...the WDFW on this new expandable broadhead"

Baloney! I hope you didn't take that bait and waste your money.

[RUTNBULL1]

"they say they have the go head approval from ...the WDFW on this new expandable broadhead"

Baloney! I hope you didn't take that bait and waste your money.

No, don't worry my arrows fly just fine with G5 strikers leading the way! 

[BULLBLASTER]

broadhead cuts will heal with time. every year starting in august i always seem to learn that... besides who needs a stinkin broadhead wrench. no real reason you would want to use expandables, especially with a young child shooting low poundage and kinetic energy, the expandable will only rob precious penetration ability. they should be using a good cut on contact head, like a stinger or muzzy phantom or like that.

Actually his bow shoots faster and harder than my Guardian...he is shooting a Martin @270 fps.
G5 Montecs make tuning easy but cut thumbs very easy...

How much do his arrows weigh?
I shoot a 450 grain arrow at 300 fps and still like my stingers!

[@RCHER]

My take on WDFW not allowing mech/expandable heads is because it's the lasting effect of "play it safe" descisions based on speculation and very little experience.

Arrows pulling out?? Okay, I want mine to stay in and mechs are easier to pull out anyway.

Anyway, loads of U.S. bowhunters use expandables and you can see for yourself on your favorite hunt vids or TV shows that they are wildly popular and equally effective.

I've shot expandables off and on for many years in AZ. I've killed deer, elk, bear, coyote, turkey, etc... with them. The only two negatives I have about them are...

1) With the wide cut (2"+) and drastic cut angles, shooting a faster bow (over 250-ish) is helpful to insure good penetration on thick skin/hide animals, like bear.

2) Once the arrow is stopped, inside of an animal, the expadables pretty much stop cutting as the blades tend to fold as the arrow backs out. Although I can't really relate this to the loss of any game I've shot.

Shooting at 270fps I've passed through deer, thinner skinned exotics, a bull elk turkey, coyote, etc. while also having trouble with penetration on a black bear, pigs, thick hair goats, and shots on bone.

[Rant to follow...] Much of the same from me...these broadheads are just tools to kill animals folks, and when the guys across the fence are all fat and happy using them and our team comes up with crap reasoning that doesn't stick, then I feel a bit like I'm reading Jim "Dumbo" Zumbo's blog about assault rifles. Come to the table with REAL objective data, that proves they are a bad choice, then work on getting the manufacturers to drop the products all together (like three-wheeled ATVs) - if they are proven and determined bad for killing wildlife. Otherwise, my reasons and experience are mine and you don't have to choose the same path. Use what works for you. I use what kills the best for me.

I care less about the fixed or expandable issue than I do about having folks driving the ship that don't know what the hell they are talking about. Every year it seems to be one Bozo descision after another.

Okay, I'm out.

[BULLBLASTER]

A bull elk turkey!!!??? where can i hunt those!!!???

anyways, i have nothing against the mech heads, but do think that you need sufficient kinetic energy to use them effectively, it is a lot harder to push a 2" head through a deer than a 1" COC head.
i would try them if they were allowed here.

[robb92]

I use them in Maryland and they work great,

[coldsteel3d]

I have also heard several times that the nap expandables were going to be approved by wdfw, but i won't change from my wac'em broad heads.  Blew through my bull at 64 yards broadside high in the lungs, and my shot his last two bulls through the chest at 4 and 6 yards, no failure.

[PA BEN]

They took out the term "mechanical", they are legal now.


g. It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width forming a smooth
line toward the feather end of the shaft and
such line does not angle toward the point.

[EastWaViking]

They took out the term "mechanical", they are legal now.


g. It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width forming a smooth
line toward the feather end of the shaft and
such line does not angle toward the point.

They may have deleted the word "mechanical"  but the description of what broadhead is legal eliminates them from the legal category,  as far as I can tell.

[KillBilly]

Sent a letter to the wildlife commission the other day questioning why Washington doesn't allow expandable broadheads....no reply as yet. I have a 13 yo just starting to bowhunt and they seem much safer.

Anything I am missing? anyone know why they are not allowed?

What are your thoughts...for or against

The reason is that expandable broadheads act like barbed hooks. Once they expand, they don't/won't pull out without doing further irrrepairable damage to the animal. In essence they are inhumane. What might bo only a minor wound couls result in death where the animal may survive when using the proper equipment.

That is the reason...

[SpokaneSlayer]

They took out the term "mechanical", they are legal now.


g. It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width forming a smooth
line toward the feather end of the shaft and
such line does not angle toward the point.

I saw that last night.  From the way I read it, it seems that they are legal for small game such as turkey's.  There was some great debate on another thread and I don't want to start another if they were legal before or not.  WDFW was inconsistent with their answer when I called about them, but it now specifically says "big game animals".

[Slider]

I care less about the fixed or expandable issue than I do about having folks driving the ship that don't know what the hell they are talking about. Every year it seems to be one Bozo descision after another.

Okay, I'm out.

Your job in life should be to take out the Bozo's!!! One at a time!!!...........

[Buckrub]

    I drew a multi-season tag and couldn't hunt with my bow during muzzleloader but could during rifle 

[Bob]

I sent a email to the game dept. about weather (mech ) are legal now and here is there reply.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ( Thank you for your recent email to Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.  Your email has been referred to me for a response.

 

Mechanical broadheads remain unlawful for big game hunting in Washington State.)  I hope this will help clear up the new rule.

[Ray]

I believe the technical part which would get expandible is that they tend to be "barbed" when they are deployed.

I don't think they will change this part about the broadhead regulation (barbed). That is an opinion and I only base it upon my next sentence. I believe that it might have been put in place because unbarbed broadheads are more likely to work their way out of an animal and therefore it might be more likely for the animal to survive and recover from with less than lethal hits.

They are legal for turkeys.

[Kain]

Does this mean I can hunt grouse, rabbits and other small game with a judo tip?

[caseyv21]

yes, and that judo does wonders on grouse

[Kain]

yes, and that judo does wonders on grouse

We use to use them when I was a kid they worked awesome.  I havnt shot at a grouse or rabbit in a long time with my bow cause I didnt want to waist an arrow or loose it in the grass or dirt.  Judo's kill em dead but dont into the ground and grab hold of the brush and grass.  Alot of time they will stand your arrow right up so its easy to find.

Oh yeah they destroy opossums too.

[Snapshot]

Kain,

Yes, any kind of point is legal for grouse, rabbits, squirrels, etc. I learned the hard way to only aim for the head of a grouse if shooting a judo because it'll penetrate (rather than bludgeon, like a blunt will) so the bird can take to the wing and sail off with the arrow in it. Without snow it's tough to blood trail a sailing grouse.

[NW-GSP]

I use them in Maryland and they work great,

The proof is in the picture. thats awesome! its always great to see what it does instead of hearing about it. great shot by the way!

[robb92]

Thanks, I found the arrow 20 yards behind where I shot the doe and she only ran 30 yards and piled up. I used muzzy 100 three blades broadheads 1 time, lost a doe I shot at eight feet, the shot was right behind the front right shoulder and it only went in about 6 inches, I looked for her for the rest of the day and into the next day, there was no blood at all. Went out the enxt day with mechs and have never lost a deer with them.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I use them in Maryland and they work great,

The proof is in the picture. thats awesome! its always great to see what it does instead of hearing about it. great shot by the way!

I agree, great shot.  Of course, with that shot placement, a field point would have worked too!