Any other bowhunters want to throw up?

[SuperX]

Archery guys generally kill more animals per unit then modern guys even though there are way less hunters.  With the loss of antlerless hunting the archery success rates will most likely come down to the MF success rates which average around 3% for most units.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/elk_general.html

no sense guessing about it, here are the actual statistics

[Rainier10]

Archery guys generally kill more animals per unit then modern guys even though there are way less hunters.  With the loss of antlerless hunting the archery success rates will most likely come down to the MF success rates which average around 3% for most units.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/elk_general.html

no sense guessing about it, here are the actual statistics

Well there you have it archery general season has an 11% success rate, move the hunt to modern permits and success rate for those guys is 40%, muzzy permits are only successful 26% of the time. Of course that’s statewide. I’ll dig into the numbers for those specific gmu’s and see if the modern guys are for some reason only in the 3% success rang there.

[Rainier10]

Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.

[Fullabull]

This state will always cater to those who spend the most money and that is the MF  group. Give archers better early season dates and take away the late season.

[Buzz2401]

Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.

Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

[Fullabull]

Everything always looks equal until you figure in the permit hunts and success rates and quality.

[buglebrush]

Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.

Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Listen, you're not going to like this.  Harvest percentages are skewed; because on average archers tend to be the more skilled, hardcore, *censored*es.  Plenty of Superior hunters in modern too, but the vast majority of the road hunters, etc...  Are hunting the modern seasons. 

[Rainier10]

Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.

Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Not cherry picking numbers. That’s where I hunt. That’s where they closed the early season otc cow hunt. That’s where they doubled muzzy tags and increased the modern tags more than double. All I’m saying is if the herd is in trouble in these two units why are they giving the tags to two user groups that by the numbers for they unit have a higher success rate for special permits?

Now if they say the herd is still over capacity and that is why we are shifting permits, okay. If they say that modern guys complained and wanted more permits okay. But if they want me to believe the herd is on the decline so they pulled the early season from archers and gave away all those other permits I’m not buying that.

[Oh Mah]

Maybe they did in a sense not sure.?They said the herd was in trouble.They did not say the herd was in trouble specific to the gmu in question.There are over quota gmu's i guess and they made this move.Does that mean that they feel there is enough elk in these gmu's to warrant a bump in tags?What really is the problem?

[MADMAX]

somewhere else on I here I read that the closed 3-series archery general cow units were being setup that way because of cows being booted out of higher country earlier thus causing landowner complaints
anyone heard anything official along those lines ?

[Tbar]

somewhere else on I here I read that the closed 3-series archery general cow units were being setup that way because of cows being booted out of higher country earlier thus causing landowner complaints
anyone heard anything official along those lines ?

Political move, not user group move. And (most) people are in the dark to where the harvest shift impacting the overall herd went.

[Buzz2401]

Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.

Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Listen, you're not going to like this.  Harvest percentages are skewed; because on average archers tend to be the more skilled, hardcore, *censored*es.  Plenty of Superior hunters in modern too, but the vast majority of the road hunters, etc...  Are hunting the modern seasons.

I partially agree with you here that archers as an average are more dedicated but they also get first chance at the animals and better seasons.  But that doesn't really change the facts that general season archers have higher success rates, of course those success rates will go down with out the antlerless animals being able to be harvested.  328\329 archers were 2.8% successful at taking spike.  That sounds low but now that archers can't take cows more will take spikes and then modern guys success rates will also go down.  Nobody wins is my point.  Like I said it sucks but just don't think its right to think that the modern guys are getting some sweet deal here.

[SuperX]

Modern antlerless permit hunters in 328/329 has a 49% success rate. Archers had a 15.2% rate in 328 and 13.8% in 329.

For comparison during general season modern did have a 5.2% and 9.4% success rates during general in those two units. Still better than the 3% suggested.

Yes that is 328/329 only now look at the rest of the Yakima units GMU335 2%, 336 1.8%, 340 2.6%, 364 1.6%, 360 4%, 346 3%, my point is that generally Archery hunters have higher success rates over modern guys.  But if we want to cherry pick numbers we can look at the over 200 antlerless animals archery guys harvested in the Clockum compared to the 160 that the modern permit guys did.  I get it it sucks that there is another loss of opportunity.  But that opportunity isn't really being shifted to modern guys.  Most units saw no increase in permits and are still less then 5% of the permits that have been historically given out.

Listen, you're not going to like this.  Harvest percentages are skewed; because on average archers tend to be the more skilled, hardcore, *censored*es.  Plenty of Superior hunters in modern too, but the vast majority of the road hunters, etc...  Are hunting the modern seasons.

I partially agree with you here that archers as an average are more dedicated but they also get first chance at the animals and better seasons.  But that doesn't really change the facts that general season archers have higher success rates, of course those success rates will go down with out the antlerless animals being able to be harvested.  328\329 archers were 2.8% successful at taking spike.  That sounds low but now that archers can't take cows more will take spikes and then modern guys success rates will also go down.  Nobody wins is my point.  Like I said it sucks but just don't think its right to think that the modern guys are getting some sweet deal here.

I am not sure that bowhunters are more dedicated or better hunters, I know I'm better since switching, but there are some great hunters shooting rifles out there.  Success percent is harder to achieve with large numbers because there are a lot more poor hunters among that 40K of modern than in 15K of archery hunters.  Bowhunting weeds out the worst hunters I guess.

Re: spikes, I hunted late this year and saw hundreds of elk in 30-50 head herds, but I only saw a half dozen bulls and of those only 3 spikes.  I suspect that is skewed but it maps to my hunting experience.  I've only seen 2-3 spikes during early season since 2010. 

To me, this change means I will have to look into hunting out of state for early season, if I need to get an elk after that, maybe Washington for late as a last resort.  All I want to do is fill the freezer

[MADMAX]

I'm thinking of just doing the westside rain forest walks with a bow or rifle on the peninsula again
then going to do mulie out of state rifle hunt in Montana solo if I get drawn
Try for a deer and elk multi tags
Methow at the cabin with buds
giving the 300 series up

[dreamingbig]

Bowhunters - last weekend to get your comments in and your letters written.  I don’t have much faith in them making changes but we have to try!

Good luck and good writing.


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