RULE CHANGES FOR COUGAR HUNTERS - please provide comment

[KFhunter]

Please provide a comment on the upcoming rules changes for Cougar

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/index.php


They want to shorten the early season so it ends DEC 15 instead of Jan 1.   (It will start on Sept 1 same as before)

Late season will be from DEC 15 to Mar 31 and it'll be a month shorter, it used to end in April.

This will allow WDFW to close the season on a lot of GMU's that historically reach their quota's prior to the start of the late season.  For example GMU 105 with their retarded 2 cougar quota always reaches their quota before Jan 1, so it's always closed come late season...but we could always hunt until Jan1.  Now we'll have to quit hunting Dec 15, about the time the snow starts flying in more earnest.

This will knock out any targeted cougar hunting as incidental harvest will reach harvest goals.  Not only that, but when there is a harvest of a problem cat (killing goats whatever) it goes against the quota too.  We need to end these retarded quota's and have a long single season. 

I urge you all to comment on this and other issues.

[bearpaw]

  agree with everything you said x2, the quota in 105 is the most ridiculous in the state

[Ridgeratt]

 

It's interesting how the quota used to be 20 animals with hounds to chasing them on foot to BOTH of them. 

Did the WDFW come transplant them to other units? Perhaps they have sterilized all the breeding females or neutered the males.

[Rainier10]

After my cougar hunt in Idaho this year and learning a ton from Dale as well as seeing firsthand a ton of cat tracks, I can say without a doubt that the whole quota thing is dumb.  Numbers should be way higher.  There is no way with the quota numbers they are using that we are keeping the cougar count in check, it is for sure going through the roof after this manner years of boot hunting only.

[Southpole]

I left comments for the cougar seal, which I think is unreasonable, and I left a lengthy comment on the cougar season and quotas. Pretty much what you all are saying. I would like to see Sept. 1 - March 31 no quotas state wide with at least a week for sealing. Pretty simple. I don't think this state is going to run low on cougars anytime soon even with a liberal season.

[bearpaw]

After my cougar hunt in Idaho this year and learning a ton from Dale as well as seeing firsthand a ton of cat tracks, I can say without a doubt that the whole quota thing is dumb.  Numbers should be way higher.  There is no way with the quota numbers they are using that we are keeping the cougar count in check, it is for sure going through the roof after this manner years of boot hunting only.

  We were hunting in an area that is open from Nov 1 to Mar 31 (a large part of Idaho) to kill 2 cougar using hounds and there are still more cats than IDFG thinks is healthy for the other game herds. Even in the rest of Idaho the season runs from Dec 1 to Mar 31 with hounds, there are female quotas in more populated southern units to prevent over harvest of females, toms are not even included in the quotas.

Washington is so far out left of reality it's just amazing. It seems the goal is to have as many cougar in Washington as possible, the impacts of which WDFW could care less. My only hope for eastern WA is for the state of Liberty to come about. We'll get better management when eastern WA makes their own game management decisions!

[jasnt]

Done. The majority of cougar I see are from dec 1st to feb 1st. I think early season should end Jan 15th

[jasnt]

100% agree with bear paw

[RB]

Are the low quotas and shorter seasons in NE Washington due to "possible" encounters with the re-introduction and listing of the wolves as endangered species?

[bearpaw]

WDFW modeled their cougar management based on studies by Wielgus who has been proven to "doctor" his studies to suit his agenda. Even the University distanced themselves from Wielgus with a public statement. That is Washington cougar management in a nutshell.

[Southpole]

WDFW modeled their cougar management based on studies by Wielgus who has been proven to "doctor" his studies to suit his agenda. Even the University distanced themselves from Wielgus with a public statement. That is Washington cougar management in a nutshell.

I also have a theory of since less people live around those parts then they'll be less conflicts and more space for cats and bears, just a theory 

[RB]

Taken out of the Alberta study I found it ironic that Washington was used in the study, very interesting information they prove Cougar can sustain a healthy harvest!




Cougar populations appear to be capable of accommodating substantial harvest. A non-hunted cougar population in Utah recovered from a 27 per cent experimental reduction in resident adults in just nine months (Lindzey et al. 1992). Logan and Sweanor (2001) experimentally reduced a cougar population in New Mexico to less than half of the original number of adults and the population subsequently grew rapidly, recovering over a two year period. Similarly, Anderson and Lindzey (2005) found that after a 66 per cent population reduction due to heavy hunting in Wyoming (i.e., 43 per cent of the population removed annually for two years), the population recovered within three years when hunting pressure was reduced to 18 per cent annual removal. In one Washington study, an attempt to reduce a cougar population through liberal hunter harvest was unsuccessful, despite removing more than 24 per cent of cougars annually through hunting (Robinson et al. 2008). However, sustained annual harvest of greater than 40 per cent of adult cougars over four years for a heavily hunted population in Utah caused rapid population decline and reduced age structure over a large area, resulting in slow recovery when hunting pressure dropped below 30 per cent annual harvest (Stoner et al. 2006).

[hunter399]

Done and done ,left comment this morning,I might not even buy a cougar tag if they continue to shorten the season.

[JimmyHoffa]

Any opinions on the hound training proposal?  Looked like basically a pursuit season to keep hounds trained in case the department needs a houndsman.

[hunter399]

Any opinions on the hound training proposal?  Looked like basically a pursuit season to keep hounds trained in case the department needs a houndsman.

Did comment on it opposed it,I think hound hunting is illegal or legal ,don't like gray areas or permits for it.plus when I'm boot hunting the last thing I need is hounds training,most cougar killed in the quota system is by hounds already ,seems to me boot hunters just keep loseing opportunities
Because of gray areas like this one.For public safety cougar should only be hunted by hounds for residential area,schools,areas where there is a risk,somebody's goat killed should be a depredation permit for land owner to shoot it.

[Ridgeratt]

Finished expressing my displeasure which is probably destined for the round file.

[rainshadow1]

Quota numbers can only be called "biologically based" by searching and finding any goofball left fielded bio support they can refer to when they go ahead and arbitrarily set their quotas purely by political agenda. They're easily half what they should be across the board. The quotas shouldn't even exist. Open seasons will balance the pressure based on heavier cat populations. Hunters aren't stupid... contrary to the belief of most Puget Sound area politicians... and Lion targeting boot hunters in the late winter will focus on overpopulated areas. (Every region in the State is above it's ideal numbers now because of the bureaucrats, but I digress...) Boot hunters could NEVER damage the Cougar population. Couldn't even efficiently manage it.

Micro management, nanny state, and good 'ole buddies run this government... not research and data.

[Special T]

Besides the general trend of overprotection of predators I think this could be a red herring. To me this seems like a an obvious confrontation perhaps to hide what the other hand is doing...

I need to do more reading, but....

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[hunter399]

Besides the general trend of overprotection of predators I think this could be a red herring. To me this seems like a an obvious confrontation perhaps to hide what the other hand is doing...

I need to do more reading, but....

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Well ya take opportunities from boot hunters, to train more hounds ,before you know it cougar will be permit hound safety removal ,and no hunting much like California.

[bearpaw]

my comments about the training season:

It says Representatives from The Humane Society of the United States and Conservation Northwest were involved in making this proposal, were hunters involved? Specifically were hound owners involved? I am a hound owner, I am also an outfitter in Idaho and own dogs that can catch cougar. I used to help WDFW with problem cougar, but over the last several years I have told them I will not help until WDFW has at least a training season. I support the concept of a training season, but I am disappointed that the Humane Society of the United States and Conservation Northwest were involved in making this proposal and I never heard about any hound owners being involved.


My comments about cougar seasons:

I asked for the seasons to stay the same and for quotas to be doubled in most units because there are too many cougar, I specifically noted that GMU 105 quota should be at least 4 or 5.

[buglebrush]

After my cougar hunt in Idaho this year and learning a ton from Dale as well as seeing firsthand a ton of cat tracks, I can say without a doubt that the whole quota thing is dumb.  Numbers should be way higher.  There is no way with the quota numbers they are using that we are keeping the cougar count in check, it is for sure going through the roof after this manner years of boot hunting only.

  We were hunting in an area that is open from Nov 1 to Mar 31 (a large part of Idaho) to kill 2 cougar using hounds and there are still more cats than IDFG thinks is healthy for the other game herds. Even in the rest of Idaho the season runs from Dec 1 to Mar 31 with hounds, there are female quotas in more populated southern units to prevent over harvest of females, toms are not even included in the quotas.

Washington is so far out left of reality it's just amazing. It seems the goal is to have as many cougar in Washington as possible, the impacts of which WDFW could care less. My only hope for eastern WA is for the state of Liberty to come about. We'll get better management when eastern WA makes their own game management decisions!

Exactly.  Washington is rapidly and nearly irreversibly approaching the end of OTC quality hunting, and it's probably due to their lack of predator management.   

[KFhunter]

If you're reading this, have you commented yet?

[Special T]

If you're reading this, have you commented yet?

I think an organised thought out responce is better than the current shotgun approach 2c

Take a look at the 2A thread. The opposition are all wearing orange scarfs and reading from scripts

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[KFhunter]

I don't think so, we need numbers not a canned letter.  These are just rule changes. 

They have to provide public input and always have, historically they get very little public input so they can change the rules however they see fit, we need to change that. 

If they provide for public input and receive very little, then we have no standing to complain about the new rules.

[hhack]

Wdfw sucks they are the definition of anti Hunting

[bearpaw]

I don't think so, we need numbers not a canned letter.

  If everyone sends comments it will make them reconsider some issues. Some issues I doubt will make any difference, but the more comments the better!

[buglebrush]

I commented, but it probably won't make a difference.  I'm so sick of WDFW.  I'm giving my money to Idaho and Wyoming this year.   

[Southpole]

Sure that's for the Cougar thread KF?

[KFhunter]

too many tabs up 

[Machias]

Commented even though it will not affect me soon.  Just my 2 cents, but it makes no difference, they have their minds made up.  Hide and watch!

[Humptulips]

After commenting I had to note the reasons the Department gives for moving the date back to the 15th are complete BS. Why don't they come out and say they want to reduce harvest and close units earlier. Anything else is blowing smoke!

[meatwhack]

Washington’s cougar management is absolutely ridiculous. Without the use of hounds the season could run year round with no quota and it would still be impossible to keep the population in check.

[Skyvalhunter]

Wait until/if they have a wf season a,d you will see little to no effect on them also

[buglebrush]

Washington’s cougar management is absolutely ridiculous. Without the use of hounds the season could run year round with no quota and it would still be impossible to keep the population in check.

[Special T]

I don't think so, we need numbers not a canned letter.

  If everyone sends comments it will make them reconsider some issues. Some issues I doubt will make any difference, but the more comments the better!

I don't mean a canned letter. I mean talking points. Organised talking points backed up by sporting organizations in which you belong. 2c

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[KFhunter]

If you can make that happen I'm in full support of it 

[Special T]

Been working on it.

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[KFhunter]

In the meantime, you should provide a comment on the issues you feel are important and vote one of three choices:       Support      Oppose      Neutral

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/index.php




Or you could keep holding your breath, up to you.

[gramps]

Many of you know this, but Oregon's cougar season is open year around and no bag limit.  One does need to buy a tag, but if you harvest a cat you just go buy another tag.
Working on a letter...trying to be civil, which is not easy.

[snake]

What a joke, we can't even convince other hunters to allow training of hounds for predators? How are we supposed to convince the lib tards to let us do it.  Pretty sad when a fellow WA hunter opposes it because he thinks it will lessen his chances of running one down on foot. 

[hunter399]

What a joke, we can't even convince other hunters to allow training of hounds for predators? How are we supposed to convince the lib tards to let us do it.  Pretty sad when a fellow WA hunter opposes it because he thinks it will lessen his chances of running one down on foot. 

The more hounds you train,the faster the quota for cougar is meet every year though safety cougar removals,so let's train more hounds and not have a season for for boot hunters in the future.

[snake]

What a joke, we can't even convince other hunters to allow training of hounds for predators? How are we supposed to convince the lib tards to let us do it.  Pretty sad when a fellow WA hunter opposes it because he thinks it will lessen his chances of running one down on foot. 

The more hounds you train,the faster the quota for cougar is meet every year though safety cougar removals,so let's train more hounds and not have a season for for boot hunters in the future.

Thats a Negative Ghostrider, gotta think big picture here!

[hunter399]

I'm for hounds when everybody can use them not just friends of wdfw.
Thinking I'm not a supporter of hounds is not me .
Here's a pic of my old hound duke before I gave him away to someone who could use him.

[Elkcollector82]

Many of you know this, but Oregon's cougar season is open year around and no bag limit.  One does need to buy a tag, but if you harvest a cat you just go buy another tag.
Working on a letter...trying to be civil, which is not easy.

That’s not a true statement. Their is a quota and each zone has an allotted number. But with a high quota number. It be hard to reach. Specially when just the blue mountains zone quota of 270 is more then the entire state of Washington’s 262 quota.  :bash:But for $167 nonresident hunting license and a $16 cougar tag. You can hunt them all year. Plus your addition tag is another $16. Oregon knows it has a cat problem with quota numbers like that.

[buckcanyonlodge]

Commented..I don't think any comments will change the plan they already have. I was NOT civil.

[gramps]

Thanks for the correction  elkcollector.  My understanding came from an Oregon resident.  I will check, but I doubt the quota is met very often.

[Elkcollector82]

Thanks for the correction  elkcollector.  My understanding came from an Oregon resident.  I will check, but I doubt the quota is met very often.

There are a couple zones that allow hounds. Obviously issued permits. For mule deer recovery.  I believe one is in the south central area. Other would be up in the northeast area. Last that I looked those are the only areas that come close to quota limits. Cause boot hunters and houndsman all count against the quota.

[Gringo31]

I commented.


This drives me crazy.  We try, little as it may be, and hope.  It's worse than hoping for a coveted tag.