Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags

[Miles]

The best Washington moose hunting days have passed.   I’ve personally witnessed moose problems in other states, and a couple years ago I made a prediction (here on HW) that Washington would see the same fate.  This prediction was based off many similarities that I saw in varying locations(states).   Washington bios had their blinders on, and obviously weren’t observing what was happening in other parts of the country, think Minnesota, New Hampshire,Maine, Vermont.  Too bad the college grad experts that studied this stuff can’t make predictions...  they’d rather wait till they can prove a problem exists. 

Wolves aren’t your only problem with moose.   The ticks will kill more than wolves ever will.   

[bearpaw]

my moose comments to WDFW:

Disease and wolves are negatively impacting our moose herds in the northeast, it's a good idea to make the moose permits bulls only to save the cows that reproduce. I strongly suggest eliminating all cow harvest in all units experiencing wolf predation on the moose herd.

[KFhunter]

I don't consider moose to be an entry level animal for youth, especially being an OIL species in WA.  I'd rather see it be a disabled vet or senior hunt than a youth hunt, and only then if the carrying capacity of the land has been exceeded or met for a number of years and the cows need reduced.

Other than that, keep the predators at bay and build the herd, not shoot the breeders.

[buglebrush]

No surprise here the Wolves are decimating the moose. 

[NRA4LIFE]

I drew the 2016 Mount Spokane North cow permit.  I made 4 scouting trips and spent 14 days afield and seen a total of 4 moose.  And I put a LOT of boot miles on all trips.  And glassed a million square miles probably.  I did get a moose but after a butt load of work.  My avatar shows my cow.  If I recall, there were 7 cow permits and 8 youth cow permits.  I have to admit that was way too many.  I am not in total agreement of eliminating all permits, but I would be an advocate of maybe 1 or 2 cow permits total in that area.  When I drew the permit I thought I'd see moose everywhere.  Not the case.  And, there are no wolves there, according to WDFW.

[Miles]

No surprise here the Wolves are decimating the moose. 

Moose are and have been struggling in locations that are wolf free.  While wolves certainly will have an impact, it’s the ticks WA should also  be concerned with. 

[idaho guy]

I drew the 2016 Mount Spokane North cow permit.  I made 4 scouting trips and spent 14 days afield and seen a total of 4 moose.  And I put a LOT of boot miles on all trips.  And glassed a million square miles probably.  I did get a moose but after a butt load of work.  My avatar shows my cow.  If I recall, there were 7 cow permits and 8 youth cow permits.  I have to admit that was way too many.  I am not in total agreement of eliminating all permits, but I would be an advocate of maybe 1 or 2 cow permits total in that area.  When I drew the permit I thought I'd see moose everywhere.  Not the case.  And, there are no wolves there, according to WDFW.

There are wolves on the Idaho side of the border in that exact area. I guess wdfw has been so accurate in documenting wolves I wouldn’t second guess them on this one. I own property on the idaho side and can guarantee their are wolves there but they must not cross borders

[KFhunter]

ticks have been around forever, it's not a new player in the moose mortality cycle nor can we control them.  Wolves are new, and controllable.   

I suppose we could fly around darting moose with ivomec. 

Or we need more gray jays and magpies 

[idaho guy]

No surprise here the Wolves are decimating the moose. 

Moose are and have been struggling in locations that are wolf free.  While wolves certainly will have an impact, it’s the ticks WA should also  be concerned with.

I agree with the ticks being a factor but I also remember people on this exact site predictions that moose would be in serious decline when the wolves showed up in Washington and also Idaho. There was also a lot of members on this site saying the anti wolf crowd were blowing everything out of proportion and that everything would be fine. Their exact prediction was the need to limit hunter opportunities and tags. I guess the guys crying wolf weren’t that far off after all.

[Stein]

Give them to the kids.  I’ll give up my opportunity any day if it means either a better future or more opportunity for kids.


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[KFhunter]

No surprise here the Wolves are decimating the moose. 

Moose are and have been struggling in locations that are wolf free.  While wolves certainly will have an impact, it’s the ticks WA should also  be concerned with.

I agree with the ticks being a factor but I also remember people on this exact site predictions that moose would be in serious decline when the wolves showed up in Washington and also Idaho. There was also a lot of members on this site saying the anti wolf crowd were blowing everything out of proportion and that everything would be fine. Their exact prediction was the need to limit hunter opportunities and tags. I guess the guys crying wolf weren’t that far off after all.

I remember them saying it will make us better hunters

[Karl Blanchard]

The issue we have in this state and many other states is we have effectively cut off our youth from having any real chance of drawing any of these tags in their lifetime. They are so behind the rest of us on points that they will never catch up. These youth cow tags are a unique opportunity for a few kids to have a special hunt for a special animal. If it's truly for preservation of the species then why are we hunting any of them at all right now?  To make the statement that if kids can't go moose hunting they'll quit hunting anyways is a fairly shallow thought. The reason we will lose youth is lack of success at all. This is a very difficult state for youth to be successful in so having some permit opportunities outside of the norm is a great way for a handful of them to find some success afield.

[Pathfinder101]

The issue we have in this state and many other states is we have effectively cut off our youth from having any real chance of drawing any of these tags in their lifetime. They are so behind the rest of us on points that they will never catch up. These youth cow tags are a unique opportunity for a few kids to have a special hunt for a special animal. If it's truly for preservation of the species then why are we hunting any of them at all right now?  To make the statement that if kids can't go moose hunting they'll quit hunting anyways is a fairly shallow thought. The reason we will lose youth is lack of success at all. This is a very difficult state for youth to be successful in so having some permit opportunities outside of the norm is a great way for a handful of them to find some success afield.

I agree with Karl in as much as this:  If we are going to cut cow tags because moose are below carrying capacity, we should start with cutting tags for adults first.
Unfortunately, working the numbers, it appears that only about 1700 kids put in for 18 youth cow tags.  At least 7,000 adults are putting in for 33 cow tags.  Adults pay $7.10 for an application.  Kids pay $3.80.  That means the state is making just under $50,000 in non-refundable application fees on the adult applications, and only about $6,500 on youth apps.  That's probably why they are talking about cutting youth tags first.  Sad, but probably factual.

Whenever WDFW does something that I think I don't understand, I always ask myself: "How does this affect their revenue stream?"...

...and I usually find my answer pretty quickly 

[Karl Blanchard]

  unfortunately you are spot on.

[B4noon]

Karl's right on fortunately i have had kids draw the youth moose and the experience has been incredible, I would love nothing more then the opportunity for myself to hunt a moose of any kind however i would gladly reduce my odds if it gave another youth the opportunity and experience my kids received.  WDFW is missing the boat and although it is reduced revenue now being that the kids get in at a lot cheaper rate if you get those kids hooked early WDFW would receive a lifetime of revenue.  Same with the Clemans ewe tags 10 tags great why not kick 2 of those over to youth and provide more opportunity.  Now they want to eliminate the opportunity to buy points until youth pass hunters ed not only does this reduce revenue in the short term but also long term.  I started buying points the year my kids were born which allowed them to have some great opportunity at an early age.  If you allow the option to buy points for youth that aren't hunting yet not only is it free revenue for the state but also creates an extremely high percentage of return customers who are committed and invested in the system.  I will add that benhuntins and bearpaws observations are unfortunately correct and in 3 to 5 years it probably wont matter what user group they allocate the tags for cause you will have to go to northwest trek to even see a moose the Idaho side of the border in unit 2 is crumbling along with it.