Depends on your expectations for the dog. There is a kennel who is "british anti collar" and don't compete in anything to prove their methods very widely. Any trained dog is better than a non formally trained dog so, if you've never experienced what a well trained dog can do you don't have a baseline comparison which is what is mostly touted by a particular kennel , their followers on the chat rooms. Also, most non collar happoy trainers do a lot more nagging and have less good results over the course of a couple thousand dogs.
