Eld Inlet Duck Hunters - the truth

[wdlfbio]

There was an early thread about folks hunting Eld Inlet and residents upset about it, even wanting to get the area to be a no shooting zone.  A bit of speculation in the thread, so I thought I'd come on over and clarify everything.  I know the situation pretty well, as I'm the one that hunts the area.

As early as 3 years ago, the area had never been waterfowl hunted, to my knowledge or the knowledge of anyone we know in the area.  2 years ago, after tons of research, I found the area and found a private boat launch (owned by Taylor Shellfish). We found Taylor, knocked on his door and asked if we could use the launch.  Very, very kind folks that had no problem as long as we parked out of the way so they could get there rigs in when they needed.  That's the end of their involvement.

We hunted it a couple of times two seasons ago and a whopping 7-8 times this season.  We never shot at legal shooting time and almost always 1/2 hour after.  We usually hunt 3 layout boats, though we do bring out the duck boat once in a while.  We also have 2 setups we use and are VERY clear on where each person's shooting zone is. NO SHOTS are taken in a manner that we could rain on the shoreline and one pod is always set up nearest the shore such that the shooter can't even swing towards the shore.

Y'all know that the scoter limit is 4 per person.  There are some GE and buffs, but not enough to bother with.  So, we usually get our 4 scoter each and split.  I think we've only hunted until 1130 once.  Most times we're done before 1000. 

So, on the second hunt this season we get 3 residents complaining at 0720.  I stop my hunt and paddle over to one of them.  I meet him at his dock to discuss the situation.  He's POd, hollering that it's 0720 on a Saturday and it's 1 of 2 days off a week he gets.  I respond with well, we could have started at 0640, but we decided to wait to let folks sleep in.  And, just like you, we only get 1-2 days off a week ourselves.  Then he asks why can't we hunt up the way so as not to bother him.  I reply with what, and PO those folks.  That doesn't sound too fair to me.  Plus, I ask if he heard us last weekend.  "No", he says.  That's right, because we didn't hunt anywhere around here last week and never hunt the same area 2 weeks in a row just so we don't bother the same folks over and over. I also add that we wouldn't do this here either and he wouldn't hear us again for a couple of weeks.  I explained the season dates and limits and that we usually are in and out in a couple of hours and if it was possible, we'd hunt during the week rather than the weekend. 

A week or so later I get a call from Taylor Shellfish asking for a little info.  Turns out some local lady, Gayle, had 5 residents sign and affidavit that folks were out boating ducks and leaving them lay.  Absolute BS.  First off, that's impossible to do in a layout boat.  2nd, I ALWAYS called the local WDFW LE prior to us going out to let him know in case folks call.  3rd, I'm a federal Bio and there's no duck worth risking my career. 

At the end of the season, Steve Fir (FWS LE) gets my number and lets me know about Gayle and that she's all distressed about our hunting and the noise.  So, I actually call her to discuss the situation.  She's complaining about the noise and that they paid lots of money for their waterfront homes and high taxes and shouldn't have to listen to the noise.  So, I tell here how infrequently we hunt and that we do not shoot towards homes so there's no safety concern.  But, she's dead set on it's just too noisy and we shouldn't be allowed to hunt in an area open to hunting because they spent extra money to build there.  Sorry, but money doesn't make it right.  So, she asks if we're going to stop.  I politely inform her, no, but we'll focus on weekdays as much as possible so as not to wake most folks.  That's not good enough for her or some of the Griffin Neighborhood Association folks.  And now they're at the point where they're trying to get Thurston County Commissioners to declare the area a no shooting of no hunting zone and we're at the point of trying to stop them.  I've heard they will be attending the Commissioner's Meeting on 8 April at 2 or 3 pm to discuss the matter further.  I'm trying to get lawbiding hunters to attend, especially since I'll be stuck in Spokane teaching airport folks how to deter hazardous wildlife from using the airfield.

Again, other than Taylor letting us use their ramp, this has NOTHING to do with them, and even if they didn't want us hunting the area, it's still legal and we would just use the Boston Harbor ramp and have a much longer boat ride.  But, Gayle and some of the Griffin Neighborhood Association folks HATE Taylor and try to use anything they can to get at Taylor.  Kinda sad for a locally owned business that's been there for 120 years...

Sincerely,

Laurence M. Schafer

[billythekidrock]

Thanks for the full details.
This is exactly why I posted what I saw on tv.

Let us know how, and when to help or support you.

[ICEMAN]

Thanks for the info. You actually appear to be a responsible and considerate user of the area.

Makes me wonder if the guys that took 7 months to build her home did it real quiet, and didnt bother anyone....? 

I guess only the noise you make bothers people.

[Skyhigh]

Hi Laurence!

[Thenewguy]

Give me more info, i will try to go

[whacker1]

thanks for the full story.  I would ask that question  suggested earlier - if they used extra discretion on the construction of their home as to not wake the neighbors?

[wdlfbio]

The construction issue is one of the things I want to bring up in the commissioner's meeting.  I'd think that air compressors, nail guns, concrete trucks, chainsaws and dozers destroying wildlife habitat, etc are all far more long-term and intrusive than the few shots we take the 3-5 hours, 7-8 days a year we are there.  You're right, our noise must be the problem, and their noise is OK

I'll keep y'all as informed as I can and would love to have as many folks present as possible.  It's tough when people don't fully understand things and make their conclusiions based on missing info, but it's completely another thing when folks outright mislead others to sway emotion.

BTW, this specific area absolutely stinks for seaducks... and no sane duck hunter would want to eat them anyway 

Howdy Skyhigh

[ICEMAN]

How much do you want to bet they run a leaf blower for hours on end, each week at her place. Plus, I also bet some of her neighbors work nights and cant hear the shotgun, and are bothered by her leaf blower and mowers.

Noise is subjective.

[Skyhigh]

Laurence,,

Make sure to swing by there on the 4th of July and get some footage of them shooting illegal fireworks..walk the beach and get footage of all the firework debris left behind..

[billythekidrock]

Laurence,,

Make sure to swing by there on the 4th of July and get some footage of them shooting illegal fireworks..walk the beach and get footage of all the firework debris left behind..

That is a very good idea.
First, how legal is it.
Second, how good is all that garbage for the environment.

[sisu]

Thank you.

[actionshooter]

Laurence, I'm just catching this thread. I hunted Eld inlet for a couple of seasons about 5-6 years ago, using Taylors (buddy works for them) launch and Boston Harbor. There were a couple of days no-one said anything but there were a couple of days we were screamed and yelled at (can't repeat everything  ) I hate to say we were ran off, but it wasn't worth the hassle and we just moved on.
 I am glad to see you aren't putting up with the people who think they own the bay. Like you we called before we went out and were told it was no problem.
 Steve

[ICEMAN]

Might be a great way to use this new hunter harassment law. Video the landowner harassing you, then call the sheriff.

[actionshooter]

Might be a great way to use this new hunter harassment law. Video the landowner harassing you, then call the sheriff.

OOOOOHHHHHH, that would be good!!   

[wdlfbio]

I'm sure it will be up to the County Commissioners, but these ideas about leaf blowers and fire works are all very valid.  Things I'll have to bring up.  Yep, noise is very subjective.  One of my hunting partners moved to the inlet not quite 2 years ago and has a few new friends on the water.  Each has asked him how hunting was after we got done and I think one even enjoyed watching one morning 8Glad to hear I'm not the only one that has encountered this problem their.  And yes, I don't like the idea of money and the extreme minority getting to push their desires onto anyone else for essentially forever.  Granted, it happens all too often, but I think defending a national heritage and something that teaches people the value of wildlife, and food in general (not something already dead, cleaned, and waiting in cellophane at QFC), is worthwhile. 

Gayle was going to come out and harass us once.  She even told Steve Fir that, but then Steve informed her she would be illegally harassing us engaged in a legal activity and that she could be punished for it.  Dang.  She told me that and I let her know I'm glad he changed her mind, because I would have immediately contacted the sheriff (I've hosted a WSP officer out there once).

[Skyhigh]

typically on the fireworks it is illegal, but everyone turns a blind eye...they light them off all hours of darkness from June thru July and again on New Years...
Do a little research and bring some data...I am sure there are more fireworks injuries/fatalities than there are hunting incidents... and emphasize that hunting is legal and fireworks is illegal....

I know you already know all this! Laurence

[Dustin07]

Every hunter MUST jump on this issue.


at the very least everyone on this forum should write a NICE and PROFESSIONL letter to the Thurston County commissionors:

http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/bocc/

I am a commissioner in my city (planning) and this is still a goverment ruled by the people. However, what I have seen is that the squeaky wheel gets the greese. if the only people who say anything are people griping, then it will appear as though the majority have spoken.


Where would the local wildlife populations be if it weren't for the contributions of the hunters via WDFW?

[Dustin07]

There it took me less than 5 minutes and I sent a letter to all three individuals for Thurston.


Everyone else who takes hunting seriously should do the same. Even if you do not hunt Thurston, you should express the value of protecting our hunting heritage so such fires to not spread a frenzy of negativity.

[ICEMAN]

Great idea Dustin, thanks for the link.

Here is my email. Took just a minute or two, sent to all three....

Good afternoon, I have heard that some homeowners around Eld Inlet have voiced concerns over noise associated with legal hunting of migratory waterfowl in this area. I am aware that the area has been open to hunting basically forever.

I would encourage you to protect my hunting privileges and heritage and keep this area open to the hunting of wildlife.

As we all know, hunters did hunt these areas safely for many years, and the noise associated with this pursuit is subjective. Many other noises can also be heard in this area, from new home construction, to mowing, leaf blowers etc...

Please protect my hunting heritage.

Thank you, ....

[billythekidrock]

Sent to all three.

In the last couple of months I have seen at least two homeowners raise issues at county meetings about duck hunting on Eld Inlet. While these “concerned” citizens may be upset about noise, the true intent of their message was apparent by the comments. It is obvious that they want to stop the hunting and will go to any lengths to do it. The fact is duck hunting is legal on Eld Inlet and it should remain so. Hunting remains one of the safest activities; it builds strong family bonds and is a good use of our renewable resources.

I am not a duck hunter, have never been duck hunting and I don’t plan to, but I will stand up for someone’s right to recreate in a safe manner. I hope you feel the same.

Thanks.

[callonetta]

Sent to all three also.

[Dustin07]

Good work guys. If you belong to any other Washington state hunting/fishing forums (there are a lot of them) I encourage you to post there about the issue as well.


It takes very few people on such a topic to create an awareness of the importance of these types of issues to commissioners and councilors. Most people would chose to roll over and turn on the TV when it takes only a few minutes of interaction to make a substantial contribution to your government.

[lokidog]

Sent to all three as well.

"I have been a long-time property owner in Thurston County. 

I have recently been made aware of a push by some county residents to restrict usage of certain public waterways like Eld Inlet.  The main complaint, from what I understand, is too much noise.  I feel that there should be no changes to access or permitted activities on these public waters. 

These same complainers, in all likelihood, produce as much or more sustained noise with their parties, yard maintenance equipment, and other activities as do a small group of safe, conscienious waterfowl hunters. 

These homeowners also have many more negative impacts on our public waters, flora, and fauna with their septic tanks, lawn fertilizers and pesticides, and general litter than do sportman/conservationists in lawful pursuit of their recreational interests.

In closing, please do not irrationally act on the recent complaints of a wealthy few when considering the impact of reducing access for sporstsmen and women who have been using the public waters of Washington while in the process of maintaining long family traditions.

Thank you for your time,"

[wdlfbio]

Thurston County will be discussing whether or not to include Eld Inlet as a no-shooting zone on 8 April at 2pm.  This is a working group meeting, so no public discussion.  But, we need emails in opposition to such zoning.

Here's mine.

Laurence
Road NE
Olympia, WA

Board of County Commissioners
200 Lakeridge Drive SW
Olympia, WA 98502-1042

Eld Inlet No Shooting Zone

Thurston County Commissioners,

My name is Laurence _______, and I am taking this opportunity to comment a proposal of making Eld Inlet a “No-Shooting Zone”.  I am intimately aware of this situation because I am one of the few Thurston County residents that hunt those waters.  After significant effort to identify legal hunting areas in combination with areas where populations of legally harvestable waterfowl persist, I found a portion Eld Inlet.  I hunted there maybe 3 times in 2007 and 6-8 times in 2008.  In the two years that I have hunted there, I have not observed any other groups hunting there.  However, I was approached by other hunters who shared,
“Laurence, I'm just catching this thread. I hunted Eld inlet for a couple of seasons about 5-6 years ago, using Taylors (buddy works for them) launch and Boston Harbor. There were a couple of days no-one said anything but there were a couple of days we were screamed and yelled at (can't repeat everything).  I hate to say we were ran off, but it wasn't worth the hassle and we just moved on.  I am glad to see you aren't putting up with the people who think they own the bay. Like you we called before we went out and were told it was no problem.
 Steve”

I am a Federal Wildlife Biologist, licensed, legal, ethical hunter.   I obtain recurrent firearm safety classification through my employer and regard safety as the utmost importance.  That refers to the safety of those who hunt with me and the residents and adjacent properties.  Prior to any hunt, I inform the state Game Warden of our intent in case any unaware residents should contact Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife) WDFW or Thurston County Sheriff.  I recognize that some citizens, and especially some local home owners do not feel that hunting should be permitted in Federally regulated waters open to the public.  I’ve personally telephoned Gail in regards to her quest to prevent anyone from being able to practice their legally permissible right to hunt there because, as she said to me, we pay extra taxes and shouldn’t have to listen to the loud noises all the time.  Waterfowl hunting is permitted for only 107 days between the latter half of October and the end of January.  Shooting times are ½ hour before sunrise to sunset.  However, we have never began shooting until it was light enough to fully target our quarry (we specifically try to target adult males rather than juvenile of female birds for breeding purposes), and quite frankly, there are enough birds present that we can wait ½ hour or longer to let residents wake up before shooting.  In fact, there are usually enough birds in the area, that I can only think of 1 time when we had didn’t achieved our limits by 12 pm.  We also make every effort to hunt the area during the week.  However, we have invited some people who are only available on a weekend to hunt.  These include active and veteran military members, other wildlife biologists, Washington State Troopers, Fire Fighters, and Federal Protective Law Enforcement Agents.  Each of these individuals is trained in the use of firearms and is far more apt at understanding the parameters of safe firearm use than the average resident.  My point with this is we may only hunt the area 8 times a year, for maybe 3-5 hours each day.  That roughly equates to no more than 40 hours of hunting throughout the year.  Additionally, we do not hunt the area in consecutive weeks.  We make every effort to spread out our hunting locations so no single area is regularly “disturbed” and the birds are not chased from the area.  I’m certain there is far more noise generated by local residents discharging illegal fireworks, using leaf blowers, remodeling their homes, etc.

I am also aware of allegations stating that a group of people were out there slaughtering all the ducks in the bay and chasing them down with boats.  My personal license plate was given as well.  This couldn’t be further from the truth.  Each hunter is permitted to harvest 7 ducks a day, of which no more can be 4 scoter (there are three scoter species that use Eld Inlet).  WDFW requires that hunters record the time, species, and location of each scoter immediately upon harvest of that animal.  We have been checked by a Federal Game Warden and a WDFW Game Warden.  As a Federal wildlife biologist, any game violation could immediately end my career.  No bird is worth that and I resent any implication that I or anyone in my group is an unethical hunter. 

We shoot 12 gauge shotguns capable of holding no more than 3 shells.  Each shell holds no more than 1.25 ounces of non-toxic shot specific for ducks.  These shot are about 1/5 the size of a normal BB and cannot sustain energy to travel much further than 100 yards.  Current Code stipulates that it is illegal to discharge a firearm within 100 yards of the shoreline (Thurston County Code 10.04.340).  Not only have we always set our decoys beyond those established safety standards, but we have taken great precaution to set our hunters (in small boats, similar to a kayak) in a manner so that shooting towards the shoreline would surely result in hitting a member of our group.  Something that has clearly never happened. 

Every effort is made to retrieve each downed bird.  In some cases, we have spent nearly ½ hour chasing a swimming winged bird.  We consume each bird we harvest (with exception for significant specimens that have been mounted by local taxidermists), and most are made into pepperoni sticks by a local big game butcher.
 
I have also read reports citing indiscriminate shooting of non game fowl.  As an ethical hunter and waterfowl biologist, I have no regard for people who illegally kill wildlife.  Although we have never witnessed this activity, we would certainly call WDFW immediately (I have the local Game Warden’s cellular number on my speed dial) and record whatever pertinent information to assist in the prosecution of all those engaged in this illegal activity. 

I cannot emphasize enough that I and those I hunt with are safe, not participating in anything illegal, and make all reasonable efforts to minimize any inconvenience to those around us.  During my conversation with Gail, she was relentless in telling me she thought I was inconsiderate to expect her to have to listen to our shots and that if I didn’t agree to stop legally hunting in Eld Inlet, her group would have to do whatever they could to try to stop us.  This is a clear example of a small group of people using their wealth (which she openly admitted they pay extra taxes to live in peace and quite) to get what they want at the cost of the general public.  We have discussed our hunting with other shoreline residents who have enjoyed watching the retrieves our dogs make and the manner in which we hunt these birds. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me at (deleted) or by email at (deleted).


Very Respectfully,

Laurence M. ______



Here is the E-mail address for the Thurston Co. Commissioners just in case you need it to send a letter concerning the no shooting zone in Eld Inlet

 

                  tcbocc@co.thurston.wa.us

 

The county administrator, Don Krupp has also asked that you cc' him on the letter, his e-mail is as follows:

 

         kruppd@co.thurston.wa.us

 

[Dustin07]

Good letter Laurence. I emailed them last month but decided to email them again since a decision is being made.

I think these types of decisions should be made after 6pm during public discussion though.

Hi All,

It’s my understanding that a decision will be made soon regarding the Eld Inlet duck hunting.  I come from a small town that used to have a strong farming heritage.  I graduated at the same school as my mother and aunt/uncle. My son will be born next month in the same hospital I was born in. He will not see the majority of the farmers I grew up with. A number of people move to small towns and rural areas (including waterfront properties) because they like the small town atmosphere. There is something about these areas that attract them. I can understand that, as I still live in the town I was born in for that reason.

However, after spending some time in these areas, folks tend to think they can improve upon the very thing that they once deemed so great that they were so inclined to live there in the first place. This type of mentality is taking heritages from the locals which have been around for a very long time.  We are losing the things we grew up with, the things that are most important to us.

In the case of hunting, it’s a very sad state of affairs as most duck hunters are typically better conservationists than non-hunters. It is the duck hunters you see raising money for duck research and breeding land purchases.  It is the duck hunters who put in the time during the spring and summer to help rebuild breeding habitats wiped out by construction. Wood duck boxes are built by duck hunters and mounted in the trees for wood ducks to nest in.

I hope to be able to raise my son with a respect and appreciation for not only the wilderness, but firearm safety. All new hunters are required to take wdfw approved firearm safety courses, and many of us hope to pursue Master Hunter certification as well.  Eliminating hunting grounds eliminates opportunities to work on these important aspects of life.

Sincerely,
Dustin
 

[pjb3]

Hey there Lawrence
Good to see ya here

[Dustin07]

Has anyone heard back about this? I've sent many emails to the Thurston County reps and I have not heard back from anyone.

I'm starting to think that today's politicians don't know how to use the internet. 

[actionshooter]

Has anyone heard back about this? I've sent many emails to the Thurston County reps and I have not heard back from anyone.

I'm starting to think that today's politicians don't know how to use the internet. 

I think they just don't listen to anyone but the special interests anymore 

[Dustin07]

possibly, but I really don't think most politicians understand how to use the interwebz, email, etc. I've seen it in my own local small government. it's a little frustrating/embarrasing.

[hearditallnow]

Greetings Lawrence!
Some of your information is questionable. I have never heard of the Taylor's being HATED as you said, where do you come up with that? I've known Gail Taylor for many years, she is highly respected and a wonderful person. And where do you come up with "spending extra money to live on Eld Inlet"?  Lawrence, you declined to pick up your spent shells that washed up on the beach(don't worry, I picked them up for you), your shot hit a home, and the scoters are in serious decline(50% in the last 25 years) per the SeaDoc Society research facility. Being jolted awake before 8am on Sunday mornings by something likened to the sound of a jackhammer pounding cement outside your window is intense and shocking and a safety issue in a residential area.  An eye witness did observe and report "indiscriminate shooting" from the floating duck blind and kayaks. I also like to shoot, but not outside my neighbor's window. 
Gail

[ICEMAN]

Greetings Lawrence!
Some of your information is questionable. I have never heard of the Taylor's being HATED as you said, where do you come up with that? I've known Gail Taylor for many years, she is highly respected and a wonderful person. And where do you come up with "spending extra money to live on Eld Inlet"?  Lawrence, you declined to pick up your spent shells that washed up on the beach(don't worry, I picked them up for you), your shot hit a home, and the scoters are in serious decline(50% in the last 25 years) per the SeaDoc Society research facility. Being jolted awake before 8am on Sunday mornings by something likened to the sound of a jackhammer pounding cement outside your window is intense and shocking and a safety issue in a residential area.  An eye witness did observe and report "indiscriminate shooting" from the floating duck blind and kayaks. I also like to shoot, but not outside my neighbor's window. 
Gail 

You know Gail.....and your signature is Gail......Hmmmmmm.......

I would liken deciding to move into a home near a duck hunting area to; moving near an airport or next to a highway or industrial area. The duck hunting has been going on since before most any of those homes being built nearby.

How do you actually know spent shells are from this person? Or his shot hit a specific home?

Gail....where do you shoot?

[sisu]

Now, now icemonster she has already hooked herself and is getting lots of slack to get more than her fair share of bait. heeheehee...let her go until someone can set the hook.

Greetings Lawrence!
Some of your information is questionable. I have never heard of the Taylor's being HATED as you said, where do you come up with that? I've known Gail Taylor for many years, she is highly respected and a wonderful person. And where do you come up with "spending extra money to live on Eld Inlet"?  Lawrence, you declined to pick up your spent shells that washed up on the beach(don't worry, I picked them up for you), your shot hit a home, and the scoters are in serious decline(50% in the last 25 years) per the SeaDoc Society research facility. Being jolted awake before 8am on Sunday mornings by something likened to the sound of a jackhammer pounding cement outside your window is intense and shocking and a safety issue in a residential area.  An eye witness did observe and report "indiscriminate shooting" from the floating duck blind and kayaks. I also like to shoot, but not outside my neighbor's window. 
Gail 

You know Gail.....and your signature is Gail......Hmmmmmm.......

I would liken deciding to move into a home near a duck hunting area to; moving near an airport or next to a highway or industrial area. The duck hunting has been going on since before most any of those homes being built nearby.

How do you actually know spent shells are from this person? Or his shot hit a specific home?

Gail....where do you shoot?

[ICEMAN]

Ooops....

[yelp]

Just a question ..not sure if it applies or if it could be used to gain further support.  Are there any tribal hunting seasons within this area whose rights might be infringed upon also?  Just curious.  I grew up hunting this area, it is a shame that it has come to this.  However this is just the beginning of what is to come..the fight for the right to hunt and weapons restriction areas.  Thanks for sending the letters..I will do the same.

[boomcity]

The construction issue is one of the things I want to bring up in the commissioner's meeting.  I'd think that air compressors, nail guns, concrete trucks, chainsaws and dozers destroying wildlife habitat, etc are all far more long-term and intrusive than the few shots we take the 3-5 hours, 7-8 days a year we are there.  You're right, our noise must be the problem, and their noise is OK

I'll keep y'all as informed as I can and would love to have as many folks present as possible.  It's tough when people don't fully understand things and make their conclusiions based on missing info, but it's completely another thing when folks outright mislead others to sway emotion.
   


NOT SURE OF LOCAL RESTRICTIONS ON CONSTRUCTION BUT USUALLY 8AM IS THE EARLEST START TIME BUT NOT MANY CONTRACTOR OBAY IT
BTW, this specific area absolutely stinks for seaducks... and no sane duck hunter would want to eat them anyway 

Howdy Skyhigh

[Skyhigh]

4th of July right around the corner...get some footage of them setting off illegal fireworks etc. etc.