Bow season vs other seasons

[Matth]

This shouldn't be bow hunters vs other hunters it should be hunters as a unified group vs wdfw. To find a solution to the problem.

I would love to agree with this but the tail wags the dog.  They listen to the money.

Archery hunters had to fight for every season and there are many that could care less if they disappear therefore we are forced to be vocal and active.  Why is a MF hunter going to care if other user groups lose opportunity.  They don’t... no skin in the game.

Because there are a lot of MF hunters out there who hunt with archery gear as well. I for one switched back to MF last season after 16 seasons with a bow, just trying to get away from everybody and there brother with a camera, and grunt tube running around all hours of the night educating elk. At some point in the near future i will want to get my now 10 year old son on to some bugling bulls, and i would like to have a reasonable season to do it in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matth]

    User group against user group is always a fail!

Vast majority of people upset about this are not mad at the hunters of other weapon choices but the decision made by wdfw so let's not get those lines blurred. 

I agree,Not aiming at anyone specific but the lines are not blurred but with me,I see clearly the people not just on here but everywhere the ones that are screaming the loudest and pointing fingers at the user groups that get this or get that are not any different than the other groups in this country that cry not fair being treated unfair and all that.
I see that there is a lot of hunters like myself that like to do all 3,switch it up.Hit up other areas.

If you want to say your gonna hunt another state like its gonna bother other hunters or something you are wrong.There was a time that archery was tougher than it is now were you complainers archery hunting back when it was re-curve bows.I can honestly say that my presence in the woods early elk archery has made it harder for all user groups for the rest of the season as far as the local elk go. IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HUNT MODERN OR MUZZY AND YOU DONT LIKE THE CHANGE FOR WHATEVER REASON SWITCH UP A LITTLE. 

Well said

[GrampasGuns]

Fairness?

That rocked my head.

[vandeman17]

    User group against user group is always a fail!

Vast majority of people upset about this are not mad at the hunters of other weapon choices but the decision made by wdfw so let's not get those lines blurred. 

If you want to say your gonna hunt another state like its gonna bother other hunters or something you are wrong.There was a time that archery was tougher than it is now were you complainers archery hunting back when it was re-curve bows.I can honestly say that my presence in the woods early elk archery has made it harder for all user groups for the rest of the season as far as the local elk go. IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HUNT MODERN OR MUZZY AND YOU DONT LIKE THE CHANGE FOR WHATEVER REASON SWITCH UP A LITTLE. 

If we go back to recurves then make modern go back to single power or even open sights. That argument is lame. Archery has progressed but so has modern firearm technology. Give me a break.

[Stein]

After my last elk hunt, I decided I was tired of hunting largely nocturnal animals that have been hunted by a half dozen other license groups before I got there.  So, I bought a bow and will be hunting the archery season next year.

Life is full of choices, I am not under the illusion that I should be able to do what I want, when I want with no interference from anyone else.

[W_Ellison2011]

    User group against user group is always a fail!

Vast majority of people upset about this are not mad at the hunters of other weapon choices but the decision made by wdfw so let's not get those lines blurred. 

If you want to say your gonna hunt another state like its gonna bother other hunters or something you are wrong.There was a time that archery was tougher than it is now were you complainers archery hunting back when it was re-curve bows.I can honestly say that my presence in the woods early elk archery has made it harder for all user groups for the rest of the season as far as the local elk go. IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HUNT MODERN OR MUZZY AND YOU DONT LIKE THE CHANGE FOR WHATEVER REASON SWITCH UP A LITTLE. 

If we go back to recurves then make modern go back to single power or even open sights. That argument is lame. Archery has progressed but so has modern firearm technology. Give me a break.

I 100% agree! MOST people archery hunting with current compound bows are still not taking shots at game beyond 70 yards. There are the few that do... some actually know how to do it and the others aren't ethical hunters. So lets figure this out. 70 yards with a compound. I know people who can hit targets all day at 55-60 yards with a recurve or longbow. so the compound gained 10-15 yards over the recurve realistically speaking. That's a 17% increase in range. Now lets look at modern firearms. The average old style hunting rifle with a fixed power scope or iron sights was good for hunting 150-200 yards, yes I know that some took longer shots with the sharps and such but a lot of those were wounding shots and not kill shots. Modern rifles with variable power scopes are EASILY capable of 300-400 yard shots and that's without any real effort. If a person puts in their time at the range then we can easily approach 600-1,000 yard shots, but I won't factor that into this. For the math lets go with the 200 yards for the old rifles and 300 for the new. That's a 50% increase in range. If we go to 400 yards that's 100% increase in range. For some of us that shoot further and are comfortable with it then that percentage goes up exponentially. Same goes for modern muzzle loaders. A few people back in the day could boast clean shots of 100 yards or slightly further. Most would shoot 50-80 yards. Now you can push a modern muzzy out to 150-200 yards pretty easily even with iron sights. For the math lets say 75 yards was average back in the day and 150 is with todays modern muzzle loaders. That's a 100% increase in range. So basically... modern firearms and muzzle loaders have pushed WELL beyond what archery equipment is capable of in todays hunting scenarios! Hell with modern firearms you don't have to be anywhere close to an elk to kill it. I personally can place a hand loaded 200 gr barnes tsx on a 13"x13" board at 630 yards first shot cold bore from my 300 wby mag. With my compound bow I can hit a target at 60 yards comfortably. I would never take a shot at an elk beyond 60 yards with my bow but anything inside of 600 with my rifle is dead. Do you all get where I am coming from with this? Basically you have an advantage of being first in the woods as archery, yes, no arguing that. You also have an advantage of using a muzzle loader or a modern firearm because you don't have to get NEARLY as close to your target as the archery hunter! I'm not saying all of this to divide us. I'm saying all of this to get you all to think about the hunting methods available. Do I agree that eastern Wa elk shouldn't be OTC antlerless for archery? YES! Do I think antlerless should be a draw tag for archery since it is for muzzy and modern? YES! Lets push for that and see how things go over the next 5 years. I feel like that will help the herds replenish a bit... BUT we also need to push HARD for predator control. Let us bait bears! Let people use hounds for mountain lion! Charge us extra for bait site licenses and hound hunting licenses. That's more funding going into the wdfw and it will knock down 2 of the big predators we have. I would say let us kill some wolves too but we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon...

[Special T]

After my last elk hunt, I decided I was tired of hunting largely nocturnal animals that have been hunted by a half dozen other license groups before I got there.  So, I bought a bow and will be hunting the archery season next year.

Life is full of choices, I am not under the illusion that I should be able to do what I want, when I want with no interference from anyone else.

Welcome to the Club. I started archery because I wanted access to private parcels near me, and a bow opened those doors. Everything has an opportunity cost, I agree.  I am a sportsman that has hunted with all 3 disciplines. I'm only moderately sucessful but enjoy the thrill of the hunt. The development of other skills  in the process is a HUGE part as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Oh Mah]

    User group against user group is always a fail!

Vast majority of people upset about this are not mad at the hunters of other weapon choices but the decision made by wdfw so let's not get those lines blurred. 

If you want to say your gonna hunt another state like its gonna bother other hunters or something you are wrong.There was a time that archery was tougher than it is now were you complainers archery hunting back when it was re-curve bows.I can honestly say that my presence in the woods early elk archery has made it harder for all user groups for the rest of the season as far as the local elk go. IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HUNT MODERN OR MUZZY AND YOU DONT LIKE THE CHANGE FOR WHATEVER REASON SWITCH UP A LITTLE. 

If we go back to re curves then make modern go back to single power or even open sights. That argument is lame. Archery has progressed but so has modern firearm technology. Give me a break.

ok ok you forced me so here you go,How many archery guys are archery because they have no choice because of some sort of prohibited status.As i said if you don't like it try other hunts.this state has been switching between groups for what one gets and don't get for years.
I wasn't talking about the advances of either i was talking about how many archery hunt for diff. reasons.and believe me more will be going to archery as time goes by.meaning more disturbing the deer and elk early killing chances for other groups later as has been pointed out a few times now.If all the complainers are concerned about is themselves its not even worth discussing.
Cry me a river go hunt another state most wont care or even will welcome the idea for them to do that.I have hunted these areas for several years and do all 3 seasons off and on or via multi season.I don't see much of a problem.What my point on the re curves was the prohibited people wouldn't even hunt if we didn't have cross bows and compounds and with the crime rate going up its going to get more crowded in the woods,I guess we can look forward to that complaining coming soon.. rant over just my op,like it or not i don't care. I hunt first for the experience and togetherness with family,second to fill my freezer.

[jstone]

Oh mah.!! Oh My.!!! I Love a archery cause I like to challenge myself. If your a great archery hunter you can hunt any weapon and be proficient. The main reason that I changed was cause of some of the crazy rifle hunters. Got dangerous. People challenge to take my animal. 10 people in a canyon shooting at an animal and arguing about it. Not my style. I am a considerate hunter. I see someone where I want to go I find another spot. That’s getting harder to do sense not many people will be that courteous any more. Bow hunter for life

[Oh Mah]

  that's why i switch up.Now i know you are not gonna say that there are no rude or un sportsman type archery guys are you?Its all ratio.Just like popeshawnpaul said and there is no changing that.

[W_Ellison2011]

that's why i switch up.Now i know you are not gonna say that there are no rude or un sportsman type archery guys are you?Its all ratio.Just like popeshawnpaul said and there is no changing that.

Won't say there aren't any rude of unsportsman type archery guys... but from my experiences.. there are by far FEWER in archery than there are in MF lol! Also don't see the woods trashed nearly as much from archery season as you do once muzzy and MF seasons are finished. My father quit hunting MF before I was even born. Took one time of a couple drunk idiots cracking off rounds at "movement" at the bottom of a clear, which was my father walking through the bottom edge of a clear cut, to make him change. I've done mostly archery but I did switch to modern for deer a couple times and am sticking with modern until I get the quality bull tag I want. I will say the woods are WAY more packed with people during MF season than during archery... that might contribute to your issue of the elk vanishing?

[Oh Mah]

Oh mah.!! Oh My.!!! I Love a archery cause I like to challenge myself. If your a great archery hunter you can hunt any weapon and be proficient. The main reason that I changed was cause of some of the crazy rifle hunters. Got dangerous. People challenge to take my animal. 10 people in a canyon shooting at an animal and arguing about it. Not my style. I am a considerate hunter. I see someone where I want to go I find another spot. That’s getting harder to do sense not many people will be that courteous any more. Bow hunter for life

If you hunt archery for the challenge why do you hunt early season?If you truly hunt archery for the challenge you should refuse to hunt early season by the harvest numbers that we have all seen.

[W_Ellison2011]

Oh mah.!! Oh My.!!! I Love a archery cause I like to challenge myself. If your a great archery hunter you can hunt any weapon and be proficient. The main reason that I changed was cause of some of the crazy rifle hunters. Got dangerous. People challenge to take my animal. 10 people in a canyon shooting at an animal and arguing about it. Not my style. I am a considerate hunter. I see someone where I want to go I find another spot. That’s getting harder to do sense not many people will be that courteous any more. Bow hunter for life

If you hunt archery for the challenge why do you hunt early season?If you truly hunt archery for the challenge you should refuse to hunt early season by the harvest numbers that we have all seen.

What does it being early season have anything to do with how challenging archery hunting is? Have you tried archery hunting for elk? I feel like you haven't if you don't think that even early season is a challenge.... You still have to be able to stalk or call an elk to within 60 yards and try to put an arrow into them perfectly... without spooking them while drawing your bow or any little thing. Its not like mf where you can see an elk a couple hundred yards away oblivious to you being there and just crack a round off...

[Oh Mah]

yes i have hunted early archery elk and with them not being disturbed prior to archery season they are not running all over the place like during mf.Making it a little easier to archery hunt elk early season.If you read any of the post on this thread from me you would see i hunt all 3 seasons off and on and all if drawn.

That's not even what this thread is about though,This thread is about some hunters crying and whining about changes that are not FAIR to them.When and lets be honest it has in the past been the other way around.mf loses out muzzy loses out.Wheres the outrage then?

I also think the no hunters safety no putting in for apps is an awesome way over due idea.No don't even try to say what about the kids its supposed to always be about the kids.Well i say bull,What about the kids that put out the effort already to do hunters ed that will be waiting as well.

[elkcamp64]

W_Ellsion you’re not even making a cogent argument to the original premises I penned.
Between your mercy call of how much tougher bow hunting is, and stating how more disrespectful other brands of hunters are leaves you sounding embarrassingly prejudicial and less than uninformed. You’re arguments are emotionally driven and therefore discountable. Your opinion is imperative; your lack of civility is not.
Here’s a thought.. Should the decision be made to put modern first, muzzy next and conclude with bow, I wonder how your perception would change?  You could math model this scenario all you want, but a real life controlled experiment with supporting data, and not hypotheticals, would probably lend to two different positive outcomes based on a greater success rate of the first two hunting groups. The carrying capacity goals and bull to cow ratios would result in meeting the greater needs of the herds.  As a physicist, I know the scatter of data would take years to build derivatives from and is just hyperbole in thought. But still, would it be interesting?
Now I know your response attempt will lead to some disconnected esoteric, red herring (look it up), nonfact related retort about this. But go ahead anyway. It’ll be worth the laugh.
I was truly looking for cerebral conversation to this pressing issue and conclude it’s not going to happen.
And member ‘OH MAN’, thank you for trying.
Good luck to all and most of all to the animals, for if this course of conversation mirrors what goes on in Olympia, soon no one will have anything to worry or complain about.