WDFW land purchase for WOLVES!!!

[Slider]

There are very few deer on the new wolf range, some wolvse have been hitting the deer hard in Benson crick and Finally canyon lately and a fellow saw five up in bear crick last week above perigen lake. Slider, I heard through some channels that the game department wants to buy Booth and Davis canyon just the other side of the golden Doe. Rumur has it the rancher doesn't want to sell, can the feds emenatdomane it from him and pay what they wish? This rancher lost 16 head of cows last year, beleived to be from wolves, not of course beleived by wolf people,, as these new wolves mostly eat salmon.

The Wolves eat cattle?

[wolfbait]

Actually, these wolves eat everything, and eventually they will get me also, but only after I feed them several little lead and copper pellets, pree-fured wolf food where I come from.

[denali]

Cu or copper is often over looked as an essential element   

http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/copper.html

anything we can do to help wolf health i'm all for 

looks like "management" will be left to the pros = us   

[wolfbait]

I don't see the wolves here being managed for along time. I don't know how they will explain such a large wolf population jump from just one wolf pack. This winter will really show how many wolves we now have. When whats left of our deer herd drops into the lowlands, with the wolves on their heels and the wolves start killing everyones livestock because there are not enough deer to feed them. How do you explain that many wolves from one pack? In reality we probably have our wolf quota right now for delisting. But instead they are just now going to start their wolf recovery. Maybe the plan is to make this area into one of their wolf tourist attractions.  I think this year will perhaps be the last deer hunt. I don't think people realize just how few deer we really have left. This spring has been a real eye opener for people with the mount of deer we don't have. It almost seems lonely, driving around the countryside and not seeing any deer.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I don't know how they will explain such a large wolf population jump from just one wolf pack. This winter will really show how many wolves we now have. When whats left of our deer herd drops into the lowlands, with the wolves on their heels and the wolves start killing everyones livestock because there are not enough deer to feed them. How do you explain that many wolves from one pack? In reality we probably have our wolf quota right now for delisting.

Why don't you find and document the #'s to move towards delisting?  All it takes is the number of breeding pairs spread in the recovery zones.     Like you said, they're tame as housecats, so finding them should be a snap.  Once that task is accomplished we can move to delisting and management. 

[WDFW-SUX]

Once that task is accomplished we can move to delisting and management.

Then we an wade through 15 years of lawsuits and watch our wildlife disappear.

[wolfbait]

Once that task is accomplished we can move to delisting and management.

Then we an wade through 15 years of lawsuits and watch our wildlife disappear.

Yep, I think the only way we can have any affect on the outcome of this is to let as many people know the true situation, the more people that get involved the better the chances of change there is. Over the years people have been brainwashed where the wolves are concerned, but if people can see all the devistation that they cause with no management well? Squeeky wheel gits the grease.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Once that task is accomplished we can move to delisting and management.

Then we an wade through 15 years of lawsuits and watch our wildlife disappear.

Yep, I think the only way we can have any affect on the outcome of this is to let as many people know the true situation, the more people that get involved the better the chances of change there is. Over the years people have been brainwashed where the wolves are concerned, but if people can see all the devistation that they cause with no management well? Squeeky wheel gits the grease.

I'm not sure that having a bunch of people riled up about wolves is going to do any good in moving towards management.  The Wolf Management plan is what is going to determine population #'s and recovery goals. That draft is completed and headed towards Peer Review, It sounds like Giest will get to take a look and make whatever comments he feels necessary.  What you could do to help is comment on the plan.  If you actually wanted to help, gathering accurate population data is the best thing you could do. 

Why don't you push for some sort of study on deer mortality in the methow?  Collar deer and follow to determine mortality?  Then some data would back your claim that the wolves are eating all the deer.   

[wolfbait]

Once that task is accomplished we can move to delisting and management.

Then we an wade through 15 years of lawsuits and watch our wildlife disappear.

Yep, I think the only way we can have any affect on the outcome of this is to let as many people know the true situation, the more people that get involved the better the chances of change there is. Over the years people have been brainwashed where the wolves are concerned, but if people can see all the devistation that they cause with no management well? Squeeky wheel gits the grease.

I'm not sure that having a bunch of people riled up about wolves is going to do any good in moving towards management.  The Wolf Management plan is what is going to determine population #'s and recovery goals. That draft is completed and headed towards Peer Review, It sounds like Giest will get to take a look and make whatever comments he feels necessary.  What you could do to help is comment on the plan.  If you actually wanted to help, gathering accurate population data is the best thing you could do. 

Why don't you push for some sort of study on deer mortality in the methow?  Collar deer and follow to determine mortality?  Then some data would back your claim that the wolves are eating all the deer.   

Informing people on how the wolves are really effecting our game should help people to get involved and perhaps, encourage effective wolf management. Yep, First thing in the morning I'm going to saddle my best ropin' mule and see if I can't find some deer to rope and collar. Any special colored collar you have in mind? Should I send you the data, and how long before you want me to send the wolf chew data back to you? You and I could be colleagues, kind of like bad-cop good-cop.

[WAcoyotehunter]

You could try to make your voice heard to the right people and put together a logical argument, rather than talk about dragging dead wolves through your screen door.  You could also try to help the situation by giving info to the people that need it to manage the wolves.  In the end, the WDFW will be the ones making the decision.  Don't you think you could help with all your information?

[WDFW-SUX]

In the end, the WDFW will be the ones making the decision.

Nope.  The federal courts will be.

[WAcoyotehunter]

In the end, the WDFW will be the ones making the decision.

Nope.  The federal courts will be.

Well, like ID and MT we should eventually be able to make the decision at a state level.  We are getting a wolf management plan together and should be ready to take over responsibilty when the wolves are recovered.  That's why we need to document animals and reproduction- we need to get to that stage in the process.

[wolfbait]

In the end, the WDFW will be the ones making the decision.

Nope.  The federal courts will be.

Well, like ID and MT we should eventually be able to make the decision at a state level.  We are getting a wolf management plan together and should be ready to take over responsibilty when the wolves are recovered.  That's why we need to document animals and reproduction- we need to get to that stage in the process.

It would seem from the history so far, the greenies and the USFW would just a soon not have the wolves delisted. They bought these wolves into this country for reasons of their own. There is poven facts it was not for the benifit of wolves in this country.


http://www.aws.vcn.com/fact.html

It's questionable how much actual benefit wolf recovery is for
   wolves. We do know wolf recovery benefits the people who make money
   off the animal. These are the special interest groups, biologists
   and researchers who study and promote the animal -- often at great
   taxpayer expense. Further, there are those who use endangered
   species as a surrogate for personal agendas such as anti-hunting and
   land control. There's also a conflict of interest involved: "Those
   who write recovery plans for wolves and other endangered species,
   choose the alternatives, conduct and edit the science, edit the
   comments and make all the decisions, are the same ones who benefit
   directly from their own contrived determinations."

 Wildlife management is an art science, not a specific science. A
   specific science is something that is specific and can be tested,
   tested and re-tested with the same results every time. Chemistry is
   an example. A chemist can mix one element with another element and
   get a certain and definite reaction every time. That is specific.

   Wildlife management is an art science in that there are so many
   variables that two biologists can look at the same studies and come
   up with different conclusions. Quite often wolf biologists do not
   agree with each other in their studies about wolves.

   This is the very reason for the need to review history. History
   helps biology and wildlife management become realistic.


For more information, contact:

               ABUNDANT WILDLIFE SOCIETY OF NORTH AMERICA
                                PO Box 2
                           Beresford, SD 57004
                            (605) 751 - 0979

Wolves kill pigs and sheep- goats and lamas- horses- cattle and dogs;
also people when wolves are not hunted. Wolves in Idaho have not been hunted since 1995, for over ten years.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344456&page=6
   

[bearpaw]

I have been busy and missed several psots but this was just too funny......

as these new wolves mostly eat salmon.

 

[Gringo31]

I was waiting for someone to do the math....

Why would 400+ acres in Twisp sell for $5886/acre which is more than most farm ground goes for WITH WATER RIGHTS!

I'm thinking I would LOVE to sell land to WDFW.