Idaho unit 26/27 cuts

[MarkTrail]

Mr. My kiss, I totally agree with you on taken action on other units. We as hunters must regulate ourselves. Idaho should do away with unlimited deer hunting the last week of October. It would reduce pressure on the migratory deer herds that can get hammered by early snow fall. Good for Idaho on taking action.  The deer herds in these areas will benefit greatly and I feel in a few years that we will see a huge increase in age structure. I will certainly miss this country for a few years.

[grade-creek-rd]

So let me get this right, the above comments are all complaining about the internet ruining Unit 27 yet Hirshey's post on her Idaho hunt goes to a dozen pages or more and views in the hundred with "wow's" and "thank you's", talk about hypocritical!...the airstrips are not "little cities" and there is a lot of wilderness hunts in Unit 27 when it was unlimited, but most hunters (guessing the ones who complained above) expect to walk a 100 yards and see dozens of bucks...well, I have been hunting Unit 27 since 1991 and some of the leanest years were 95 and 96 and especially 97 after the back to back winters of the previous years...in 2014, 2016 (I skipped 2015) the hunting was incredible, probably the best I have ever seen it...and last year the deer suffered from the winter (not the hunters) but the elk hunting was crazy...saw over 200 in 2 days, and killed a 5x5.

Don't be fooled that hunters pushed this change...hunters and air taxi services DID NOT push for this, as I know dozens of hunters who sent letters to not have this kind of cut...it was driven by the Idaho Outfitters and Guide's Association...they WILL NOT suffer from this as they noted that in the past 5 years the most deer hunters that hunted with a guide was 99...so IDFG allotted them 99 outfitter tags above and beyond the NR cap. But on average just over 500 NR hunted this unit so they capped the NR tags at 10% and are only allowing 51 tags NR tags. Even IDFG warned the Guides that if the NR hunters do not return to Idaho to hunt other regions that this will be looked at again in the near future as each NR hunter is worth on average $500 to IDFG and a 450 hunter hit x $500 = $225,000 out of their budget (just for Unit 27...add in the cuts to 26 and 20A, as well as 10A) which is a lot of money to IDFG. Add in all of the revenue lost to Air Taxi's, and local communities (I know we stay at least 2 nights at a hotel, plus food, gas, and buy our groceries once we get to McCall...I grew up in a small tourist town and know that it means more to them to spend my money when I get there than to buy my food at my local grocery store).

As far as the hunting goes...no biologist agreed with the cap, as the carrying capacity is just fine in the Wilderness areas...most of the hunters above are complaining because of THEIR expectations, not the ecosystems. Wolves get hunted hard by all of those NR hunters, with a lot of wolves taken or chased out of the area allowing the mule deer to breed. It is an 18 day season, and the Frank Church is the largest wilderness area in the lower 48 states...500 deer taken out of Unit 27 is nothing and even then, it's not 100% success as some hunters don't care to shoot small bucks...but just because YOU don't want to shoot a small buck doesn't give you the right to limit other hunters...this is the main problem with hunters today...they (YOU) expect everyone to conform to your ideals...I like sitting in camp and spotting 10-15 bucks even if they are 2 to 4 year olds. I like going out in my last day of the hunt, after passing on bucks all week and then filling my freezer...which I find ironic that most hunters in WA just try and find a legal buck, yet when we go to Idaho all of a sudden a "real hunter" only shoots a 180+ inch buck...give me a break. The 500 NR hunters contribute way more to the local economies in ID, as well as the deer can handle the harvest, so why should it be limited?...because Guides were pissed that a NR can and have been going in there and killing the same deer that the Guide charges a NR $5000 to hunt. I've had those guides ride by me on their horses with clients while I was packing out a nice buck and the look on the clients face said it all..."why am I paying this guide so much money and that guy gets to kill that buck instead of me".

WE ALL SHOULD BE UPSET AS WE JUST LOST A HUNTING SEASON...last time I checked the Frank Church is PUBLIC NATIONAL FOREST...I have just as much of a right to hunt there as the next guy, but we all get stuck on this idea of "I want to hunt alone...it's not fair someone else found MY spot" and are apparently willing to give up our hunting spots with an attitude, "Well, if someone else is going to hunt here then I'd rather nobody can"...and for what it's worth, where I fly into (same spot as Hirshey, fyi), I can hike to an area and hunt all day without seeing another person...so, I don't care if there is 200 camps (fyi, there isn't as that would be more than the entire hunter count for Unit 27 at 4 hunters per camp on average) at the runway...nobody is near my spike camp...

Grade

[2MANY]

In my opinion it's the easy access that should be outlawed in 27.
Delete the plane and let hunters hunt.

In more accessible units I'm all for limiting the hunter pressure by making it a draw for residents and nonresidents alike.

[fishngamereaper]

Access isn't that easy I've been stuck in the church for 4 additional days due to weather. And I know a few truck's spend the winter back there every year.  Maybe limit number of people flown in per air strip.

Are these tags going to be in the draw category now or first come first serve.

[grade-creek-rd]

2MANY...I'm gonna take a guess that you've never been in Unit 27...as a plane ride to the airstrip is just like a truck drive to the trailhead...there is no "easy" access in the Frank Church. Very steep terrain (which is probably why most deer are killed within a mile or two of the runway, creating this image of overcrowding, as most hunters can't get too far from the runway due to physical limitations as they don't realize how steep the terrain is...).

I'm all against limiting my privilege to hunt but allow others who can afford a guide to hunt the same place...If a hunter can spend $5000 they can hunt the same public land every year that I now might draw a tag for once in 10 years if lucky...it's all about $$$ and controlling the public lands...

Grade

[grade-creek-rd]

fishgamereaper...draw system...no preference points, all up for grabs...all 51 tags...UGH...there goes another public land hunt!

Grade

[lord grizzly]

remember this is only NON RESIDENTS were talking about limiting. I say great job F&G. a resident of there own state should have privileges a NON RESIDENT shouldn't. going to make this hunt better for sure 

[2MANY]

2MANY...I'm gonna take a guess that you've never been in Unit 27...as a plane ride to the airstrip is just like a truck drive to the trailhead...there is no "easy" access in the Frank Church.

Well you would be wrong.
I know all too well the effort it takes to pack into the frank although I choose to use stock.
I also have seen the burden that is lifted when the plane flys in and drops off folks with physical limitations. lol
As far as I'm concerned if you can't clear the trails with a chain saw then the planes should get the boot as well.
I'm not a fan of the tail draggers.

CHEERS.

[2MANY]

remember this is only NON RESIDENTS were talking about limiting. I say great job F&G. a resident of there own state should have privileges a NON RESIDENT shouldn't. going to make this hunt better for sure 

All the more reason for everyone to move to Idaho!!!!

[grade-creek-rd]

With this attitude there will be no hunting left except for the privileged rich...and there is no difference in driving a truck to a trailhead or taking a plane to a trailhead (most air strips are on private land or state land...none are on wilderness lands, and those that are managed by the FS are on national forest lands, not wilderness designations...and FYI, they use power tools in the Frank Church through a special use permit...they didn't put those bridges in place with hand tools). As far as limiting NR's on Nation Forest Land...keep in mind that the Guide and Outfitters didn't lose a single tag over this decision...it's not about game management or "quality experience for Idahoan's" (and by IDFG own's stats, there are very few Idahoan's that actually hunt Unit 27, and the ones I've met hunt with family/friends that are NR)...its about $$$ for the Guides and Outfitters.

Even if your "not a fan" you shouldn't limit other's that are a fan...that's the slippery slope towards socialism..."I'll tell you how to live...they way I want you too..."

Grade

[grade-creek-rd]

Before anyone gets all upset at my socialism comment...as I can see that train comin'...all I am trying to say is that it's scary to think that a special interest group like the Guides & Outfitters Assoc can control IDFG...this decision doesn't affect them at all and is not based on game management. Keep in mind that if they limited ALL NR to just the 51 tags then the Guide & Outfitters would have been sitting in the same corner as the Air Taxi's...

Hunters need to stick together...Non-Residents, Residents, archery, modern, muzzy's...we are more likely to protect our heritage if we do this...but instead we tear each other apart based on personal agenda...I don't have $5000 to hunt each year, and I'm guessing most of us on here don't.

Slipper slope...just sayin.


Grade

[2MANY]

It is obvious you're upset that you may have to draw to go now.
I get that.

However the population is growing and the places our animals call home are shrinking.
My solution is to limit the ease of access to these wild places.
Lock the gates at the asphalt..............I really don't care.

Man is far too numerous and far too efficient these days.
Somethings gotta give.

[2MANY]

One thing I worry about is the hunter displacement to other nearby units.
How will they now be effected?

IMHO it will be just like WA State's steelhead problem.
Shut down plants on the big rivers and the little rivers are toast.

[grade-creek-rd]

I agree with you 2MANY on too many people, not enough land and SPOT ON about displacement!!! A Major factor!...and honestly, I'm not upset at not being able to hunt deer in there in Nov...I actually go in early and do very well...it's the 51 tags for NR while guides still get there normal allotment of NR tags...if the excuse is too many NR's then cap the total amount of NR's and make it equal for all NR's not just say, "You peasants only get 51 tags to fight for, while the rich get to go whenever they want". That's my issue with it all...if IDFG said, 51 total, guides included, every NR gets the same chance to draw the tag then I'd be less concerned. Keep in mind, your locking the gate at the asphalt is the same attitude the Sierra Club has and is very scary...one reason is that not all American's are in the shape as a 20 something male...luckily I'm healthy, but if I end up in a wheel chair I shouldn't be restricted just because I'm in a chair (no, they don't need ADA ramps at the trailheads...but my point is that I should be able to access these lands, they are public)...by your own accord what if the sign at the gate at the trailhead also said, "only residents can use stock on these federally public trails that you non-resident's paid just as much in federal funds to use..."

We have to be careful of special interest groups controlling the masses...even in the hunting world.

Grade

[2MANY]

I get it and agree.

IDFG will eventually screw up the state of Idaho as their population base grows.
IMHO the state governments sleep in 4 days of the week and only get up on the 5th to cash their paycheck.

Is it fair that you need to apply for a special use permit to use a chainsaw???