Out of the points game

[Duckhunter14]

"Same number of hunters, same number of permits = same odds no matter what."

Obviously you are just being a troll now, I hope. If you cant comprehend that it would not be the same number of hunters because causing everyone to only choose one category would significantly decrease the amount of individuals in each category then its not worth continuing the conversation.

[SkookumHntr]

"Same number of hunters, same number of permits = same odds no matter what."

Obviously you are just being a troll now, I hope. If you cant comprehend that it would not be the same number of hunters because causing everyone to only choose one category would significantly decrease the amount of individuals in each category then its not worth continuing the conversation.

He doesn't comprehend it, I stopped commenting on the points threads years ago,, its a pretty tough read 

[NOCK NOCK]

So.....If this "choose 1 permit only" to apply for idea happened, How long do ya'll figure it would take to get drawn for say a Any Ram permit?
When a person can only choose 1, more than likely that 1 will be a very popular permit, (sheep, moose, rut elk, Entiat quality deer, etc.)
In theory, it could take years for an individual to draw the 1 permit they really want, all the while they have had zero chance at anything else.
For those like myself who have drawn an OIL, and several quality permits, it would be an advantage, but not a welcomed one.
The way it stands now, a person can draw more than 1 high quaility permit in the same year(happens every year)

IMHO, this is not the change we need.....I'll take my chances with status quo over 1 choice only.

[Stein]

So.....If this "choose 1 permit only" to apply for idea happened, How long do ya'll figure it would take to get drawn for say a Any Ram permit?

Far less than it does today.  I don't think that most people truly comprehend how bad the draw odds are.  I put in for Chelan which is 2 permits for 4,757 applicants.  Do the math on that one, it will take somewhere around 2,300 years on average to draw the tag if you start today.  Actually, it will probably take far longer than that on average as it gets worse every year. 

Over a lifetime, you are looking at similar odds to being struck by lightning and about 3 times better odds of drowning than pulling a sheep tag.

[buglebrush]

So.....If this "choose 1 permit only" to apply for idea happened, How long do ya'll figure it would take to get drawn for say a Any Ram permit?

Far less than it does today.  I don't think that most people truly comprehend how bad the draw odds are.  I put in for Chelan which is 2 permits for 4,757 applicants.  Do the math on that one, it will take somewhere around 2,300 years on average to draw the tag if you start today.  Actually, it will probably take far longer than that on average as it gets worse every year. 

Over a lifetime, you are looking at similar odds to being struck by lightning and about 3 times better odds of drowning than pulling a sheep tag.

 

[Oh Mah]

Well either wait 2300 years gaining points or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pick a different hunt.

[High Climber]

So.....If this "choose 1 permit only" to apply for idea happened, How long do ya'll figure it would take to get drawn for say a Any Ram permit?

Far less than it does today.  I don't think that most people truly comprehend how bad the draw odds are.  I put in for Chelan which is 2 permits for 4,757 applicants.  Do the math on that one, it will take somewhere around 2,300 years on average to draw the tag if you start today.  Actually, it will probably take far longer than that on average as it gets worse every year. 

Over a lifetime, you are looking at similar odds to being struck by lightning and about 3 times better odds of drowning than pulling a sheep tag.

 

It will go from drowning 3 times to drowning 1 time  however a quality elk or deer permit will have zero chance of falling out of the sky onto your head

[dreamingbig]

That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 

I have been preaching on point #2 for many years now but folks don’t want to believe the math!


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[RB]

That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 

I have been preaching on point #2 for many years now but folks don’t want to believe the math!


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Branched out this year and applied for Idaho Moose because of the second bullet point!

[BULLBLASTER]

That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 

I have been preaching on point #2 for many years now but folks don’t want to believe the math!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Branched out this year and applied for Idaho Moose because of the second bullet point!

I wish I could apply for Idaho Moose!

[OltHunter]

I don't think bobcat is being a troll - he's just saying, he wants a chance to draw all species, and if we go to 1, technically his odds would go down overall since they would be 0 for other species, though they would go up for the 1 specific species.

I do like the idea of Idaho's draw, but I think something that drastic would never fly and application fees would have to go up to around $50-$60 to keep revenue the same.

I like the idea of having all species to apply for, but combining then into 1 species would be a good start, like other western states.  Elk for example, combine quality/bull/antlerless into 1 application, same for deer.  Most would put first choices quality, but those that might not care or would want a high % for anterless, they would put those first and get better odds.

Since WDFW would not approve a decrease in revenue, increase application cost to $20-$25.

I'm not sure if it's been brought up yet in the multiple other points threads, but I would like to see something similar to the way Wyoming applies points to applicants - give the top certain % point holders a certain % allocation of tags, with the rest random.

[Roperfive88]

I don't think bobcat is being a troll - he's just saying, he wants a chance to draw all species, and if we go to 1, technically his odds would go down overall since they would be 0 for other species, though they would go up for the 1 specific species.

This is the problem no matter how many times you cut a Pie its still the same size. Ya a few will have a better odds for someone hunts but at the end of the day the same amount of people are drawn and the same amount are not and complain they can't draw a permit. If you want better odds put in for the permits with a lower number of applicants but everyone wants the get rich quick better odds at thier coveted tag.

People that want to change everything refuse to realize the problem is not enough animals for the number of hunters.  They need to realize that drawing a Permit is not their right and is just a lottery. No one deserves a permit more than another whether it be a hardcore hunter or the person that likes to hunt but is not super serious about it. It is impossible for everyone to draw a tag In both our system and the purposed one. There is no silver bullet unless we could drastically change our animal numbers, but I doubt that will happen, or you pay the big bucks to buy a governer tag or a hunt out of state.

I may never draw a sheep tag, Moose tag, or quality elk permit but would much rather have a really long shot at all 3 rather than have a long shot to draw one. As well as a chance at the other categories.

The one thing I would like to see is a second draw for unsold OIL tags and for those people who pull multiple permits and want to choose just one of them and return the others for that species.

[Oh Mah]

go look at my last thread in the other poll and see the size of pie taken out. 

[Roperfive88]

"Same number of hunters, same number of permits = same odds no matter what."

Obviously you are just being a troll now, I hope. If you cant comprehend that it would not be the same number of hunters because causing everyone to only choose one category would significantly decrease the amount of individuals in each category then its not worth continuing the conversation.

Taking opportunity away does not change the number of hunters. It just hides the number of people that didn't draw because they had to choose to be guaranteed not to draw now even though they really want that tag. Makes the numbers look better but the same amount of people can't draw. It would be hard for me to choose between all my apps. I really want to draw all the tags I put in for.

[Roperfive88]

go look at my last thread in the other poll and see the size of pie taken out. 

Just because you take away pie dosen't mean that it never existed. Just hiding the disappointment  .