Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[trophyhunt]

I remember a couple years ago on here when the wolf debate started, there was a few members saying they were looking forward to the time when the wolf population was enough to hunt them?  Well, the wolf population is up, deer and elk are getting hit hard and still no hunts for wolves.  Maybe you’ll get your wish by the time we lose 75% of our game, you going to be happy then???  The blues used to be one of the best elk tags to draw in this entire country, now just in the past couple years it’s elk numbers has plumited, possibly by half!  So is this what you wanted, just to hunt wolves?  What a G damn waste!  I’m not that nieve to think this is all because of the wolves, but they get most of the blame.  You mad bro, or are you happy???

[lord grizzly]

I’m no wolf supporter but honestly if your game department would manage them it would eventually even out. 10 years ago there was going to be no elk left in Idaho in 10 years. Just pulled some trail cams while setting up bait and low and behold, elk. Wolves aren’t going anywhere. Your going to need to learn how to hunt with them and get your game department managing them. 

[trophyhunt]

Idaho has approx 4,792,000 acres of wilderness, if you add the 9 million roadless acres to that you would be 2nd behind Alaska in wilderness land.  Your at 14% wilderness in Idaho, wa is at 4% with 4.4 million wilderness acres ranking 5th in the nation. 

[Cougartail]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

[trophyhunt]

And there is a wolf supporter, well, our herds were doing just fine w all the bears and cats the past few years. Except in the Hancock properties where the deer are taking a beating by all the predators.  Yes, we need to kill predators like bears, cats, coyotes, but if you don’t think wolves are a big problem then your’re not thinking clearly.

[trophyhunt]

I’ll put you in the happy catagory then.

[Cougartail]

I'll put you in the non-thinking, emotional and irrational category along with all the westside liberals..

Wolf kills on deer and elk, 6000 max.
Cougar kills on deer and elk, 85,000 min.

Yeah, I'm the one who isn't thinking clearly..

Do you want me to estimate bears and coyotes for you?  lol

[Magnum_Willys]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

. I agree but reality in Idaho is elk numbers didnt start rebounding until they got aggressive  on wolves. That tells me wolves are the cause of tipping point.

[trophyhunt]

Um who are the wolf supporters? Liberals! I’m pretty far from that.  So, according to you the wolves have no impact on recent down turn in elk and deer numbers? Are you a Wdfw employee ?  Cause then it would all make sense.

[pianoman9701]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

You're absolutely correct. Cougars and bears kill a lot of deer and elk. So gee, wouldn't it be responsible to add another apex predator when the WDFW already has a problem managing cougars and bears? It's like saying the house is already on fire. Let's add some kerosene. As far as your Little Red Riding Hood scenario is concerned, wolves act in very specific and predictable ways all over the world. It changes little or none from country to country. Once the wildlife is depleted, they feed on livestock and become more accustomed to being around humans. With nothing to fear, they start feeding closer to homes on pets and garbage. When the humans don't pose a threat, they start testing them and will eventually attack them. If you think wolves are no threat to humans, you really need to read more about countries where citizens aren't killing the wolves when they get out of hand. Russia, Iran, Scandinavian countries, Turkmenistan. Wolves will kill people and do it regularly, all over the world. Why do you think stories like Red Riding Hood were written?

[Cougartail]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

. I agree but reality in Idaho is elk numbers didnt start rebounding until they got aggressive  on wolves. That tells me wolves are the cause of tipping point.

Might be.. but I think it isn't the kills they make but the stress on herds due to the hunting tactics they use.. Chasing.

[idahohuntr]

I remember a couple years ago on here when the wolf debate started, there was a few members saying they were looking forward to the time when the wolf population was enough to hunt them?  Well, the wolf population is up, deer and elk are getting hit hard and still no hunts for wolves.  Maybe you’ll get your wish by the time we lose 75% of our game, you going to be happy then???  The blues used to be one of the best elk tags to draw in this entire country, now just in the past couple years it’s elk numbers has plumited, possibly by half!  So is this what you wanted, just to hunt wolves?  What a G damn waste!  I’m not that nieve to think this is all because of the wolves, but they get most of the blame.  You mad bro, or are you happy???

If you are complaining specifically about the lower numbers of elk in the blues recently, I would attribute nearly all of those declines to the very harsh and prolonged winter in 2016. 

[Cougartail]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

You're absolutely correct. Cougars and bears kill a lot of deer and elk. So gee, wouldn't it be responsible to add another apex predator when the WDFW already has a problem managing cougars and bears? It's like saying the house is already on fire. Let's add some kerosene. As far as your Little Red Riding Hood scenario is concerned, wolves act in very specific and predictable ways all over the world. It changes little or none from country to country. Once the wildlife is depleted, they feed on livestock and become more accustomed to being around humans. With nothing to fear, they start feeding closer to homes on pets and garbage. When the humans don't pose a threat, they start testing them and will eventually attack them. If you think wolves are no threat to humans, you really need to read more about countries where citizens aren't killing the wolves when they get out of hand. Russia, Iran, Scandinavian countries, Turkmenistan. Wolves will kill people and do it regularly, all over the world. Why do you think stories like Red Riding Hood were written?

Wolves kill around 200 people a year around world. Most in Asia. Bees kill more by far.. If you're worried about that, please head to your local college and ask for directions to their "Safe Space".

Funny thing is, when not hunting ungulates bears become a favorite target for wolves.. far more than humans or livestock. They also kill all competition by other predators in their "territories" including other wolves.

The wolf actually represents the werewolf in the 17 century original books. Modern children didn't understand that symbolism as werewolves aren't part of our culture.

[trophyhunt]

I remember a couple years ago on here when the wolf debate started, there was a few members saying they were looking forward to the time when the wolf population was enough to hunt them?  Well, the wolf population is up, deer and elk are getting hit hard and still no hunts for wolves.  Maybe you’ll get your wish by the time we lose 75% of our game, you going to be happy then???  The blues used to be one of the best elk tags to draw in this entire country, now just in the past couple years it’s elk numbers has plumited, possibly by half!  So is this what you wanted, just to hunt wolves?  What a G damn waste!  I’m not that nieve to think this is all because of the wolves, but they get most of the blame.  You mad bro, or are you happy???

If you are complaining specifically about the lower numbers of elk in the blues recently, I would attribute nearly all of those declines to the very harsh and prolonged winter in 2016.

Im going to believe the guides that work and live in that country that I’ve talked with. 

[buglebrush]

Idahohntr is a serious Wolf apologist.  Consistently. 

Wolves absolutely are the tipping point that pushed us into a predator pit.  Also, the extreme duress put on pregnant cows by wolves has to affect calf survival.

Washington's ungulates are paying the price for WDFW's complete refusal to manage predators.  That includes but isn't limited to wolves.  We need some biologists to grow a pair, and raise a stink.  But we know they won't.  Bought and paid for.