Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[Oh Mah]

Wolf kills on deer and elk, 6000 max.
Cougar kills on deer and elk, 85,000 min.

Yeah, I'm the one who isn't thinking clearly..

Do you want me to estimate bears and coyotes for you?  lol

I agree with some of your points here but your math is skewed,You didn't do any figures on wolf kills for just killing.Bears,Coyotes and Cats don't just kill for sport,Wolves do.

The numbers are meaningless.

He's correct that all predators need attention, we can hunt cats, bears and coyote, we can't hunt the wolf.  WDFW has an asinine cougar quota plan and restricts bear hunting far too much.  We need better management of all predators and we need state driven management of wolves or full de-listing and a season put on them.

Agreed  as i stated before in other threads its up to the hunters to get out and take care of the bears cougars and coyotes,none of which has net the annual quotas every where in the state.Cougar was open in several areas into this year and still open in a couple.

[Cougartail]

Wolf kills on deer and elk, 6000 max.
Cougar kills on deer and elk, 85,000 min.

Yeah, I'm the one who isn't thinking clearly..

Do you want me to estimate bears and coyotes for you?  lol

I agree with some of your points here but your math is skewed,You didn't do any figures on wolf kills for just killing.Bears,Coyotes and Cats don't just kill for sport,Wolves do.

The numbers are meaningless.

He's correct that all predators need attention, we can hunt cats, bears and coyote, we can't hunt the wolf.  WDFW has an asinine cougar quota plan and restricts bear hunting far too much.  We need better management of all predators and we need state driven management of wolves or full de-listing and a season put on them.

They (wdfw) also are giving some questionable numbers on cougars. For years they used numbers around 2000 and I rarely ran into tracks. For a while they used 3500 or there about and I saw tracks everywhere. Still see tracks everywhere and they are now back to 2000??? (Being a trapper I am always looking at tracks.) A good way to lower quotas I guess?

[Oh Mah]

way more than 2000 i think. 

[KFhunter]

The upshot is I can ride a motorcycle and not worry so much about hitting a deer with it, 30 years ago I couldn't hardly ride 1 day without at least one close call.   Riding a night?  forget about it 


Now I can even ride at night 

[Skyvalhunter]

That's great news!!!

[pianoman9701]

Wolf kills on deer and elk, 6000 max.
Cougar kills on deer and elk, 85,000 min.

Yeah, I'm the one who isn't thinking clearly..

Do you want me to estimate bears and coyotes for you?  lol

I agree with some of your points here but your math is skewed,You didn't do any figures on wolf kills for just killing.Bears,Coyotes and Cats don't just kill for sport,Wolves do.

The numbers are meaningless.

He's correct that all predators need attention, we can hunt cats, bears and coyote, we can't hunt the wolf.  WDFW has an asinine cougar quota plan and restricts bear hunting far too much.  We need better management of all predators and we need state driven management of wolves or full de-listing and a season put on them.

They (wdfw) also are giving some questionable numbers on cougars. For years they used numbers around 2000 and I rarely ran into tracks. For a while they used 3500 or there about and I saw tracks everywhere. Still see tracks everywhere and they are now back to 2000??? (Being a trapper I am always looking at tracks.) A good way to lower quotas I guess?

You never replied to my comment that we had enough predators without introducing a new one - Canadian Grey wolves. We weren't having a problem with our ungulate populations before they became populated in our state. We had cougars already, and bears, both at full carrying capacity. The wolves pushed the predator balance over the top. Again, when your house is on fire you don't just say to heck with it, let's add some kerosene. The wolves are the kerosene. The numbers, timeline, and evidence is all there for all of the N. Rocky states. You can continue to push your cougar narrative if you want. That doesn't mean that it isn't complete BS, because it is.

[Oh Mah]

We have enough predators in this state without introducing more.

I was watching the meeting (committee wdfw)or something like that.on tv the other night.The committee chairman was talking about the RCW pertaining to re introducing wildlife in this state and that it would be illegal to do so.I'm talking about the grizzlies here.If reintroducing grizzlies (I know they are already here)would be illegal then wolves would be the same.Is this why the dept. claims they did not bring them here?Also if it is illegal as the chairman said that would include the elk that were brought in as well as the antelope?  so confused.

[Special T]

Let's not forget that a couple years ago the Wildlife committee wanted to increase the Cougar Quota and the the Gobenor shot it down.... Now in the recent season package they split the season up so that there would be less over quota harvest.

There is a purposeful effort to protect predators, even the huntable ones.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jackelope]

How many deer do we think wolves kill per year here in Washington?

[Oh Mah]

No one knows,But by the math of what they eat between 52 and 35 per wolf per year.That does not account for sight hunting wolves.It is well known that Wolves will kill ungulates just for sport.

[jackelope]

No one knows,But by the math of what they eat between 52 and 35 per wolf per year.That does not account for sight hunting wolves.It is well known that Wolves will kill ungulates just for sport.

So they eat 52 deer per wolf per year. What about elk? I'm not positive, but I don't think every wolf kills 1 deer and 1 elk per week. I could be wrong there I guess. I'm also not a wolf supporter, and I know I'm a little late to this particular game, but I'm fairly sure the decreased ungulate numbers probably are a huge, nasty combination of wolves, a massive quantity of lions, coyotes and bears probably killing more fawns than anything, weather, habitat loss... I just don't believe there are enough wolves in the state to be the sole reason for our crappy ungulate numbers.

[Oh Mah]

Between 52 and 35 per wolf per year is 1 per week to 1 per 10 days.Elk or deer the numbers don't change because of size.they eat what they want and leave it.then when they want to eat again they kill and eat another.They also kill on sight when they are not even hungry. 


you are also correct it is not just the wolves,hunters need to take responsibility also.go out and tag a cougar or a bear.go out and getsum coyotes,every hunter.   

[KFhunter]

No one knows,But by the math of what they eat between 52 and 35 per wolf per year.That does not account for sight hunting wolves.It is well known that Wolves will kill ungulates just for sport.

So they eat 52 deer per wolf per year. What about elk? I'm not positive, but I don't think every wolf kills 1 deer and 1 elk per week. I could be wrong there I guess. I'm also not a wolf supporter, and I know I'm a little late to this particular game, but I'm fairly sure the decreased ungulate numbers probably are a huge, nasty combination of wolves, a massive quantity of lions, coyotes and bears probably killing more fawns than anything, weather, habitat loss... I just don't believe there are enough wolves in the state to be the sole reason for our crappy ungulate numbers.

Wolves will kill a lot more if they have a grizz or three dogging them, stealing kills.  That's when wolves have to work a bit harder once the snow's off.

[Humptulips]

P man,
I would not discount Cougartails description of the cougar situation.
I live here on the Olympic Peninsula and have put in a lot of time and miles between trapping, hunting and earlier chasing cats with the hounds for 50+ years.
We do not have wolves here yet so any problems can't be blamed on them and yet I have witnessed a downward spiral of the ungulate population on the OP. Every year I think it can't get worse and it does. No wolves so what to blame? I call BS on those who would say habitat. The clearcuts grow up, sure , but there are more and even in areas where there is logging game is scarce.
This winter I was trapping up on the Wynooche and trapped through a week of perfect tracking snow. Out everyday and making a point to look for tracks. Never saw one deer track. Did see two elk. I also saw cougar tracks daily. Cougar never used to be interested in coming to bait. Now they are bothering my traps everyday. Even caught one in the act of dragging one trap off. Beaver are so few I feel ashamed to trap one and contrary to maybe other areas the coyote population is way down. I have seen signs where cougar do take coyotes and for sure cougar will key on and decimate beaver.
So what else is there driving deer and elk numbers down? Poaching? I get into some areas where there is no access and no brush pickers. If it was poaching these places should be islands of game but they are not. Hair loss syndrome? I have not seen a deer afflicted with it in several years.
I read on here how bad it is in parts of the E side but E side hunters don't have a monopoly on crappy hunting. I saw 5 deer last deer season  in 5 days hunting and even though I am slower then I once was I am not the guy to sit around the PU and complain. I get out and hunt.
Is it just a coincidence that things started spiraling down about 20 years ago after I-655 passed?
I remember an old line from a Sherlock Holmes story, something to the effect that when you have eliminated all other possibilities what ever is left no matter how unlikely  is the culprit.
I would never say that wolves are not of major concern because regardless of what some may try to sell you predation is additive.
At least where I live too many cougar are the main problem and I would even go a step farther and say they are the problem, period, full stop!

[jackelope]

I don't think it's possible to point the finger at wolves anywhere specifically. I think there are a metric crap ton of things, all contributing to the problem at hand. It's safe to say that the wolves don't kill a lot of elk in NE WA. I'm sure they kill some, but due to low elk densities, they don't kill a lot of elk(obviously). More deer and moose and grouse and rabbits and whatever else they happen on.
Likewise, I don't think the wolves kill a lot of deer in the southeast part of the state. Deer densities are low. See above.  Speaking of the southeast....remember my trail camera pictures I posted 3-5 years ago?  A dozen elk standing in a field? Huge bulls? A friend had that tag 2 years ago. They saw 1 immature bull  and they hunted the entire season, bell to bell. There's not enough wolves there to make a difference. Where did they go?
Too many factors. Too many different locations. Habitat loss is a factor...maybe not in 1 specific area, but it's a factor. Bad winters, maybe not the primary cause but it's a contributor. Mountain lions...they're bad.  Etc Etc Etc.

Maybe the passion on the wolf topic is blocking the overall picture for some.